[ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox

Tomaz Kristan protokol2020 at gmail.com
Sat Apr 12 11:53:02 UTC 2014

Anders Sanberg says:

> one doesn't know much about how nested it could be

If it's possible, that this deepness is say 10, then it is possible, that's
it 0,also. That we are not in simulation right now. Even a bit more

On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Anders Sandberg <anders at aleph.se> wrote:

> Mike Dougherty <msd001 at gmail.com> , 11/4/2014 10:33 PM:
> The way I understand the holographic universe, there's a 2d description of
> the information contained inside the 3d volume bounded by a sphere.  If
> there is more information generated by any of the subspace, wouldn't the
> sphere necessarily increase in surface area to accommodate the increased
> complexity in the description of the bounded space?
> As far as I understand it, the boundary is arbitrary: it is a marker, not
> a thing. So if a bunch of extra information arrives inside, it corresponds
> to a change in the description on the boundary. But the location of
> boundary itself does not change.
>   The more complex and ordered the simulations (of any level) the larger
> the surface and therefore the more emptiness around the information-dense
> core.
> The Bekenstein bound places a limit on the amount of information inside a
> volume by the encoding capacity of the boundary. But if there is too much
> information in a small region you cannot make it stable by having lots of
> emptiness outside, since there is another boundary just around the core
> that bumps into the bound. A matter distribution does not avoid becoming a
> black hole just because there is a lot of nothing outside: it has to keep
> its density within a limited range instead.
> Does that remind anyone else of a description of an atom?
> No. :-)
> Atoms are rather different: the reason for their size scale is the
> relative strength of the forces. Electron clouds have a size determined by
> how the electromagnetic force falls off and how strong it is relative to
> the electron mass. The size of the atomic nucleus is determined by the
> ratio between the strong and electromagnetic force, and the nucleon masses.
> Note that there are nuclei as large as cities (neutron stars), and
> electron clouds you can hit with a car (metal objects) - as well as "naked"
> nucleons and electrons. This has nothing to do with fundamental physics.
> (As you can tell, I am annoyed by people saying "but what is, man, our
> solar system/galaxy is like an atom... whoa" - I usually respond that
> planets/stars don't jump between orbitals and certainly doesn't follow the
> Schroedinger equation.)
> Anders Sandberg, Future of Humanity Institute Philosophy Faculty of Oxford
> University
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