[ExI] More Advanced Extraterrestrials

[BillK]

On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 8:08 PM, Anders Sandberg wrote:
>
> BillK wrote:  25/12/2014 6:52 PM:
> I assume that they will be post-Singularity entities. They won't be
> cowboys with spaceships and laser guns like Star Trek. Their advanced
> tech will be like magic to us.
> I don't believe we will be able to understand post-Singularity aliens.
>
>
> Quoting from a paper I am writing:
>
<snip>
> Now, applying this to post-aliens too: we should expect them to have certain
> traits due to their evolutionary past, and then amplify their ability to
> achieve them. This leads to secondary interests, most likely along general
> purpose lines like the convergent instrumental goals we usually worry about
> in AGI - a post-alien is in many ways just like an AI, something intelligent
> with possibly weird goals.
>
> So this picture suggests they will not necessarily be unknowable. However,
> if we use humanity as a guide a lot of the obvious large-scale activities
> (cities. agriculture, pit mines, border fences, golf courses) are
> tangentially or indirectly related to the basic goals, and it seems that
> historically we are moving further away from the obvious (just a few percent
> of farmers now, and soon just as few industrial workers - the rest are doing
> mostly nonobvious services). So my guess is that we would recognize some of
> the big aims of the post-aliens, but not their means and quite likely miss
> the big point of their activities.
>
> However, opaqueness does not mean invisibility (this is where I disagree
> with Bradbury and Smart, who have argued for a strong convergence towards
> quietness or invisibility).
>

Bother! Your response forced a rewrite of my draft reply.   :)

I agree with your comments as a step in the right direction. But I
don't think it goes far enough.

It is too easy for us to underestimate the Singularity and exponential
change. It won't be like now with a few more clever gadgets. For the
first few hours or days, perhaps. But so much could change in so many
different ways and so quickly, that a bit of mind-boggling is in
order. For example, if they go nano, change their substrate and speed
up processing by a factor of millions, then from their POV that
effectively freezes the outside world (including humans).
Communication becomes impossible with pre-Sing entities.

We don't see mega structures like Dyson spheres. In fact everything we
see appears to be natural and unaltered. So, assuming post-Sing civs
exist, then they don't do large scale engineering. Nano scale seems
much more likely. I wouldn't even assume to know what they might use
as an energy source. Perhaps the space-time froth or quantum vacuum
fluctuations might be sufficient. Or hovering on the edge of black
holes, who knows? Don't assume our physics is the final word. There
are still plenty of unsolved problems.

There has been plenty of speculation about what a post-Singular
civilisation might be like, but a fundamental point is that everything
changes. It is a wall that we cannot see beyond. Let's hope we survive
it!  :)

BillK