[ExI] [tt] Identity thread again

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Wed Apr 8 20:13:39 UTC 2015


Is there now or will there ever be a perfect hard drive/storage device?
No.  Then, no perfect copy.  bill w

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:43 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015  Rafal Smigrodzki <rafal.smigrodzki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > You think the other guy should slave away to accomplish some task and
>>> then kill himself, but if the other guy's mind is identical to yours then
>>> he thinks exactly the same thing and obviously that could lead to conflict.
>>> Science can find no difference between the original and the copy but
>>> whenever thought experiments of this sort come up people ALWAYS put
>>> themselves in the place of the original. ALWAYS. Just once as a mental
>>> exercise try putting yourself in the position of the copy. Would you even
>>> believe me if I told you that you were the copy? Even if you did believe me
>>> would you happily jump into a volcano if the original told you to? Why
>>> doesn't the original jump into the volcano, the two of you are identical so
>>> what makes him better than you?
>>>
>>
>> > Of course I would.
>>
>
> Maybe, but you know what, I really doubt it. People have been known to
> change their minds and for far less dramatic reasons than looking down into
> a molten sea of red hot lava. You really don't think you might have second
> thoughts about jumping in?
>
>
>> > I would remember the decision to make a copy,
>>
>
> The 2 are identical, so why did the original decide that the copy should
> jump into the volcano and not the original?
>
>
>> > and I would know where the copy ends up.
>>
>
> Not necessarily, not if the duplication were made in a symmetrical room,
> then one would remember that somebody that looked just like them suddenly
> appeared on their left, and the other would remember that somebody that
> looked just like them suddenly appeared on their right; and unless they had
> access to an objective video recording of the entire duplicating procedure
> which they're subjective memories could be compared with there would be no
> way for either of them to know which one was the original and which one was
> the copy. And given that they are identical there would be no reason to
> care. Would you then agree to flip a coin to decide which one jumps into
> the volcano and which one lives a long happy life?
>
>
>> I would pursue the course of action I decided to follow before I made the
>> copy, the decision being incorporated into copy.
>>
>
> Suppose that  before the copy was made you knew that it was the original
> that would have to make the long climb up the mountain and jump into the
> volcano while the copy with a pretty girl at his side would watch your
> every step with binoculars, and then after you jumped in the copy would
> continues to live a long and happy life. Would that in anyway effect your
> decision to be duplicated?
>
>
>> > There would be no possibility of conflict.
>>
>
> Both believe that the other guy should jump into the volcano, and I see
> the possibility of conflict in that.
>
>
>> > I might make the decision to make a backup copy in a safe place, and
>> then I, the original, would jump into the volcano.
>>
>
> Under those circumstances I'd be willing to jump into the volcano too, but
> only if the backup was made so close to the time I hit the lava that I had
> no time to have a last thought. How long is that? A second or two. Having a
> last thought is the part of death that I personally don't like much, but
> there's no disputing matters of taste.
>
>   John K Clark
>
>
>
>
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