[ExI] SETI for Post Singularity Civs

Flexman, Connor connor_flexman at brown.edu
Thu Jan 15 23:43:41 UTC 2015


I like the outside-the-box thinking that dark matter (DM) could be
post-singularity civilizations, but unfortunately after some thought I
think current knowledge makes it seem very unlikely. I'm not sure exactly
what you mean by that proposition, but I think the weak version would be
that some of it is made up of post-singularity entities and the strong
version would be that all of it is PSEs.

A big strike against the strong version of that hypothesis is that we can
map out DM in galaxies and see that it's relatively uniformly distributed
throughout each galaxy and out to > 4 times the luminal galaxy radius. Any
entities or civilization would need structure as negentropy and if the
strong hypothesis were true then we would expect to observe either more
structure or less uniformity between DM inside and outside the galaxy (one
should be favorable, not equally acceptable). This is why all DM can't be
PSEs.

Other strong arguments against both strong and weak versions:
1. Galaxy formation simulations require DM to have existed since the Big
Bang to achieve the correlation spectrum of the Cosmic Microwave Background
that we observe, and the Baryon Acoustic Oscillations that we can infer.
Without the gravity of DM since this time, there would be a longer length
scale as photon pressure pushed ordinary baryonic matter further afield.
PSEs can't really have existed before galaxy structure began.
2. a) (Assuming DM is made of WIMPs, and not other exotic particles)
Interacting with 4 forces is both a blessing and a curse. While there are
more extinction possibilities like GRBs, the strong force and
electromagnetic force are pretty vital to having complexity. I suppose it's
conceivable one could build a sufficiently complex system for an
intelligence using the weak force and gravity, but I think it's likely
impossible due to the tiny impact cross-sections and the fact that gravity
can't be shielded (not sure if the weak force can). Therefore, it's almost
certain the PSEs would opt for the baryonic universe, where they would have
many more options for creation and control.
b) (Assuming DM is made of axions) Similar argument for miniscule
cross-section with strong and weak forces.
c) (Assuming DM is made of superpartners) More possible, but higher
particle energy means fewer particles and total degrees of freedom in the
universe to control and compute with. I don't know enough string theory to
have other good commentary on this but it would be the most plausible to be
PSEs out of the main possibilities for DM.
3. These cases all kind of require DM to exist already, so the PSE
hypothesis doesn't explain DM but rather explains our not seeing the PSEs.
This unfortunately doesn't deal with the fact that, even if the PSEs
implemented themselves on DM, it would be the default outcome for them to
also extract energy from the baryonic universe, which then runs into the
same pitfalls as the idea that they're all around us and we're somehow
missing them.
4. Many more elegant and predictive hypotheses for DM have been proposed
which Occam's Razor favors.

Cool thought experiment though.


On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 9:16 AM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

> >... On Behalf Of Stuart LaForge
>
> >...SETI's current strategy seems to focusing on sampling a large number of
> narrow bands around the hydrogen spectrum...So to summarize, the methods we
> are using to find ET are weak and heavily biased toward meat-civilizations.
>
> >...Stuart LaForge
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Ja that is a possibility.  We could imagine that tech societies avoid
> sending out signals in all directions but rather aim a tightly-collimated
> beam only to stars known to be safe.  They don't want to get involved in
> our
> continuous ongoing civil war on this planet.
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>



-- 
Non est salvatori salvator,
neque defensori dominus,
nec pater nec mater,
nihil supernum.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20150115/f6f45296/attachment.html>


More information about the extropy-chat mailing list