[ExI] Quantum consciousness, quantum mysticism, and transhumanist engineering

John Clark johnkclark at gmail.com
Sun Apr 2 00:10:54 UTC 2017


On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:


> ​> ​
> The term I learned is 'operational definition' - you define your terms,
> ego, atom, anything you want to study by the scientific method, by the way
> you measure it
>

​I ​know of no way to measure consciousness or use the scientific method to
study it unless a assumption is made that has never been proven and will
never be proven, that there is a relationship between intelligent behavior
and consciousness. From Godel we know there are a infinite number of true
statements that can not be proven, not because the proof is hard to find
but because the proof does not exist.



> ​> ​
> If you cannot do that, you cannot claim to have produced a scientific fact
> with your experiments.


​And there are no scientific facts about consciousness, that's why
consciousness theories are so easy to dream up, there are no facts they
must fit, one works as well as another unless certain axioms are assumed to
be true.  ​


​> ​
> I only object to your use of a circular definition.


​
Without examples all definitions are circular if you plumb them to their
depth, and all correct mathematical equations are tautologies


> ​>
> I think we basically agree in that you argue that an 'example' is what
> justifies the use of the word 'science'.
>

It's not just science, examples of how people use words is how
lexicographers got the information to figure out how to write the
definitions in their dictionary. Examples begat definitions not the other
way around.

>
> ​> ​
>  People outside of science are puzzled by such definitions as
> 'intelligence is what intelligence tests measure'.
>

​That works, but its a example not a definition, so is intelligence is the
sort of behavior Einstein engaged in when he worked on physics.

John K Clark


   ​
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