[ExI] effective altruism

Tue Jul 16 18:40:57 UTC 2019

Understood William.  I'm not clear whether you are agreeing in tone with
Ben or saying something else,  Apologies, thanks, Randy

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:21 AM William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am not certain I understand this message, but likely it is about what
> Ben posted about hating Microsoft and Bill Gates and my reply to that.
>
> bill w
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 10:41 AM Randy Burkhardt <
> randy.burkhardt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Ben, respectfully William, I know you said you don't want to say
>> more but if you could say which parties are which in your reply I would
>> really appreciate it.  Thanks, Randy
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 3:48 PM William Flynn Wallace <
>> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not have any problem with anyone being upset with someone or even
>>> hating them.  That is none of my business.
>>>
>>> But to accuse a person of doing something out of guilt over putting out
>>> a flawed product that we have to work with anyway is to make an unwarranted
>>> assumption that may reflect unfairly on that person..  That simply does not
>>> meet the Ockhams' Razor test.  That's all I wanted to say.  bill w
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 3:18 PM Ben Zaiboc <ben at zaiboc.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, my remark was supposed to be rather tongue-in-cheek, but if we
>>>> are
>>>> going to be serious about it, my main objection is that MS seems to
>>>> have
>>>> been, and still is, the ringleader of the whole attitude that software
>>>> companies have today, an attitude that is not inevitable, and that I
>>>> think is destructive and holds us back massively, and is so pervasive
>>>> that many people have trouble even conceiving that things could be
>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to be the natural order that when you buy (or, I should say
>>>> 'pay for', because you can't usually actually /buy/ it) a piece of
>>>> software, you don't own it, you hardly have any rights at all regarding
>>>> it, you're not, in practice, allowed to understand how it works or
>>>> modify it, or even to try to (often that's actually illegal!), and you
>>>> are prevented from even understanding what you're agreeing to when you
>>>> hand your money over, because the license terms are deliberately very
>>>> long and obscure.
>>>>
>>>> It seems inevitable that any software that you use is subject to
>>>> arbitrary changes by the vendor, forced upgrades, often at inconvenient
>>>> times, and sudden disappearance of features regardless of whether you
>>>> find them useful or not. And of course, you can't just do what you wish
>>>> with it. It's a bit like buying a bike that you're not allowed to
>>>> change
>>>> the gears or brakes on, can't even fit a different bell if you want,
>>>> and
>>>> the options for adjusting the handlebars and saddle are severely
>>>> restricted to pre-set choices. And don't even think of changing the
>>>> tyres! On top of this, it will stop working unless you take it in for
>>>> regular services when it may be returned a different colour, with
>>>> different lights, etc., etc.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's odd that nobody would tolerate it if, when you take your
>>>> car to be serviced, it was returned with the pedals swapped round, the
>>>> handbrake removed altogether and your radio hidden away somewhere
>>>> inaccessible, with brand new controls installed that don't do what you
>>>> want anymore, but yet people accept this level of interference
>>>> routinely
>>>> when it comes to software. Not to mention the snooping. Of course,
>>>> people /will/ accept it when their cars start reporting how they are
>>>> used to various unknown parties, because they will have been
>>>> conditioned
>>>> to accept this kind of invasion of privacy because that's how their
>>>> computers behave, and cars are increasingly turning into computers on
>>>> wheels.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not claiming that this culture is exclusively Microsoft's doing,
>>>> but
>>>> they certainly were enthusiastic early leaders in establishing it. And
>>>> things don't have to be this way. There are software systems that don't
>>>> treat the user as an enemy, that don't mean "against the user" when
>>>> they
>>>> use the word "Security", and that allow the user to own the software,
>>>> modify it, control it, and get the use from it that /they/ want, rather
>>>> than the use that the vendor wants to impose on them.
>>>>
>>>> As a transhumanist and extropian, I'm always in favour of individual
>>>> choice, with the only restriction being that you don't harm others by
>>>> your choices. All the big software companies these days are explicitly
>>>> opposed to that principle. They want the only choice on the table to be
>>>> /their/ choice, and to hell with anyone who is harmed or disadvantaged
>>>> in any way by it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not against change, even random change (which is often what you
>>>> seem
>>>> to get with many software products), but I am against imposing that
>>>> change on the users without asking them, and without allowing any
>>>> possibility of opting out of it (short of stopping using the software
>>>> altogether, which just isn't an option for many users). Just look at
>>>> the
>>>> Microsoft support forums and you'll find scores, of not hundreds, of
>>>> user complaints and requests and pleas, about features that have been
>>>> imposed on them that Microsoft refuse to even listen to, let alone do
>>>> anything about.
>>>>
>>>> It didn't have to be this way. There are ways of making money without
>>>> treating your customers with such utter contempt.
>>>>
>>>> OK, that's my rant over. Back to normal programming now (pun intended).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ben Zaiboc
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Randy
>> (805) 268-7426
>>
>>
>> ringtones:
>> www.randyburkhardt.com
>>
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-- 
Randy
(805) 268-7426

ringtones:
www.randyburkhardt.com
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