[ExI] [Extropolis] libertarians

[efc at swisscows.email]

Hello Keith,

I agree with you. Bad times are here/are coming, and it is easy and 
comforting to find someone else to blame.

Look at europe at the nationalist wave there for instance.

Add to that, unusually incompetent and arrogant politicians in power. So 
when a "man of the people" comes who speaks, acts and voices the thoughts 
of the people instead of talking politicolese, it is very tempting for the 
common man to stick it to the professional politician and vote for one of 
their own.

Here is where I think Trump shines. The way he expresses himself is so out 
of line compared with traditional politicians that he creates the illusion 
of being "one of us" (despite private jets etc. etc.).

Now what I find interesting is that this is nothing new. Just look to 
history. And yet, people fall for it every time.

If you can see that, if I can see that, why can't the majority? Is it 
genes, education, IQ or some other personality traits that allows some 
people to look at history and apply some metaperspective to what's 
happening in the world?

Granted, historical performance does not guarantee future performance as 
every finance company says, but I do believe that we can learn lessons 
from history.

Best regards,
Daniel


On Wed, 16 Aug 2023, Keith Henson wrote:

> The interesting thing is not about Trump himself but the cult following he has.
>
> Why do large numbers of people act this way?  You can get a hint from
> looking at where most of the Trump followers are located.  It's from
> locations in the rust belt that are not doing well economically.
>
> Support for populist leaders in an economic downturn is not new.
> Hitler rose to power in the economic disaster of Germany after WW I.
>
> I argue from evolutionary psychology that humans are evolved for war,
> and the detection of bleak times coming starts the process that (in
> the stone age) took a tribe from being on good terms with neighbors to
> killing them.
>
> The enhanced circulation of xenophobic or just crazy memes is part of
> this process.  Consider the attacks on people outside the conventional
> sex orientation or the Qanon nonsense.
>
> The worst part of understanding human psychological traits is that
> there does not seem to be a thing you do about the situation.
>
> Keith
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 1:40 PM efc--- via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello guys,
>>
>> I consider myself libertarian, classic liberal, anarcho-capitalist or just
>> plain old capitalist depending on the company and how much I want to
>> provoke people.
>>
>> I'm not american but given the choice of only Biden or Trump, I prefer
>> Trump. I've seen and lived under socialism and that is why I prefer
>> Trump over Biden any time any day. I met and spoken with way too many
>> people who lived under soviet style socialism, so I can never vote for
>> anyone who is in favour of increasing the control of the state or who
>> increases taxes.
>>
>> If the choice was completely free however, I would vote for Ron Paul or
>> probably someone even more freedom oriented who never even made it
>> through the media out of the US.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2023, Keith Henson via extropy-chat wrote:
>>
>>> Two main groups called themselves libertarians (lowercase).  The
>>> political Libertarians were so fractious they could not get along with
>>> each other or anyone else.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the two groups were known as the Space Cadets, people who got
>>> their political philosophy from Heinlein, and the Ranroids, followers
>>> of Ayn Rand.
>>>
>>> One day the religious-like intense attraction of Rand might be
>>> understood. 13-year-old boys seem to be particularly affected, some of
>>> them never recovering.  Speculation on this included the idea that
>>> boys of that age are selfish and that Rand's objectivism glorifies
>>> selfishness.  Rand's view of the world is in opposition to
>>> evolutionary psychology, which makes the case that we should value
>>> others because of shared genes.
>>>
>>> The Space Cadets are easier to get along with.
>>>
>>> While the early extropians leaned libertarian, most of them were easy
>>> going about it.  Because so many of the early L5 Society members were
>>> Heinlein fans, that organization leaned libertarian as well.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 2:20 AM Giulio Prisco <giulio at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 9:13 PM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 2:58 PM William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> We, or at least most of us, are libertarians.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I once called myself a libertarian but the meaning of the word has changed so radically that I can't do that anymore.  These days most "libertarians" are just Trump zombies.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I once did NOT call myself a libertarian because I didn't like the
>>>> excessive emphasis on property and guns. But now I do call myself a
>>>> libertarian, or at least a libertarian at heart, because today's
>>>> "culture" in the West is becoming anti-libertarian and this must be
>>>> stopped. I'm a libertarian in the true sense of the word: one who
>>>> thinks that one should be free to think/speak/do whatever the fuck he
>>>> likes as long as he doesn't interfere with the freedom of others to do
>>>> the same. And by the way, I prefer Trump to cancel culture.
>>>>
>>>>>>> What freedoms do we not have that we should have or need to have?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The freedom to inject any chemical we wish into our bodies, including cyanide.
>>>>>
>>>>> John K Clark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "extropolis" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to extropolis+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/CAJPayv3FDCRJKb2dy2nwgWDX8Q8CL%3DOxbtZj%2BF3E9fFhPc8LVA%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "extropolis" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to extropolis+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/extropolis/CAKTCJycPXYCvxEsAiwoZNDcbir%2BXBzv12Meqt5eR7ZsZd9EXiw%40mail.gmail.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> extropy-chat mailing list
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat_______________________________________________
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
>