[ExI] [Extropolis] Evolutionary pathology

[Keith Henson]

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 2:45 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 12:53 AM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:
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>> > I have bitched about how hard it is to get people to grok evolutionary psychology.  (Particularly when it involves people understanding human motivations.)
>
> Evolutionaries psychology is very important, but I think you may be placing too much emphasis on it.

Perhaps so.  On the other hand, if it helps us understand war and
other social disruptions, can you think of anything more important?

> Not every behavioral trait is the result of some benefit it conferred to our ancient ancestors,

No, some behavior selection is recent.  I have harped on Gregory
Clark's work for ages.  Because you make such a statement, I presume
you have not read it.  It explains an awful lot of our current social
organization, including the origin of the super-rich.  I highly
recommend you read it.
https://faculty.econ.ucdavis.edu/faculty/gclark/papers/Capitalism%20Genes.pdf

> not even those behaviors known to have a genetic basis. Some of those behaviors are the result of the complex interaction of many genes that evolved independently for reasons that had nothing to do with the trait in question. In other words, it's an evolutionary spandrel.

In some cases, this is fact.  Drug addiction, a widespread behavior,
is in that class.  No way can you account for it being selected.  The
human motivation and reward system has always been under positive
selection.  Exogenous chemicals that have the effect of endorphins and
dopamine short-circuit the reward system.

> Steven Pinker believes that the almost universal appreciation of music is an example of such a spandrel, a side effect of our powerful ability to find patterns in sounds that evolved so we could understand language not appreciate music.

I have argued in a similar vein making the case that music is a side
effect of language and bilateral symmetry.  A stroke that affects the
area opposite Broca's area in the brain will wipe out musical ability

> But not all side effects are bad, some of them are quite good, hell I think consciousness itself is a side effect.

> I also think you place too much emphasis on war, yes it was an important part of the ancient environment in which our species evolved, but it was not the only part or even the most important part.

The cycle was population growth until a weather glitch hit, and then
starvation or war knocked the population back to where the environment
could feed them, followed another cycle of population growth.  I have
no idea what is "the most important part" of this cycle.

Understanding what causes wars and how we can keep out of them seems
like a topic that should be understood, especially in a world loaded
with nuclear weapons.

>> > Of course, you need to grok evolution, genetic selection, and something of biology and embryogenesis before you stand a chance of
>> understanding evolutionary psychology. At least the first of these is now accepted by a little more than 50% of the US population.
>
> And I'll bet that 90% of the people who believe in the Bible but not in Evolution voted for the scientific illiterate Donald Trump and will almost certainly do so again. And I'll bet that 70% of the people who called themselves "libertarians" also voted for that scientific illiterate and will almost certainly do so again; they're not gonna let a little thing like becoming a traitor and staging an unsuccessful coup d'état in an attempt to become dictator of the USA stop them. That's why I no longer feel comfortable calling myself a "libertarian".

I have said enough on this subject.

Keith

> John K Clark
>
>
>
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