[ExI] FW: How fun could doom intelligent life to a blissful extinction

[efc at swisscows.email]

This is a very interesting subject.

I read a story in one of the local swedish mainstream newspapers where 
anonymous couples where complaining that society expects people to enjoy 
having and raising children, and that they severely regretted having 
children.

The reason where the responsibility, the lack of autonomy, restrictions, 
cost etc. All the couples said that officially they all expressed intense 
happiness since that is what society expects, but in private they where 
all unhappy with the decision of having children.

Another angle is that I think women are more biologically driven to enjoy 
having and raising children than men. I personally for instance, find most 
children annoying but for my significant other, there is no higher dream 
and expression of self worth and identity. Couple this with, in sweden at 
least, a tendency to more and more singles, and you there have a dampening 
factor as well.

Last, but not least, you have all the other reasons, religion, financial 
security, custom etc.

So many reasons, and I am convinced that a rapidly changing society, where 
more people will lead better and better lives, where goods will cost less 
and less, will naturally lead to a weakening of the drive to having 
children.

Best regards,
Daniel


On Wed, 19 Jul 2023, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote:

> Some people - not everyone by any extent, but a significant enough fraction of people - find it fun to have and raise children.  In
> this scenario, perhaps only they would create further generations, but they are enough that further generations would continue to be
> created.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:08 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       Hello everyone,
>
>       I think this raises interesting questions of ethics and the "purpose" of
>       mankind.
>
>       If we agree that happiness is the the ultimate goal, and not the survival
>       of the species, then why not stop having children if we can get along fine
>       with robots and AI:s?
>
>       Perhaps, assuming life extension or "immortality", there will be a final
>       generation?
>
>       Best regards,
>       Daniel
> 
>
>       On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, spike jones via extropy-chat wrote:
>
>       >
>       > I posted this right before the ExI list barfed.  Posting again.
>       >
>       > spike
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > -----Original Message-----
>       > From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com>
>       > Sent: Saturday, 15 July, 2023 4:14 PM
>       > To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>       > Cc: 'BillK' <pharos at gmail.com>; spike at rainier66.com
>       > Subject: RE: [ExI] How fun could doom intelligent life to a blissful extinction
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > -----Original Message-----
>       > From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of BillK via extropy-chat
>       >
>       >
>       >> ...If the pursuit of happiness is the primary explanation for our decreasing fertility rate, this tendency might be
>       true not just for humans but for all intelligent life — providing a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox.
>       >
>       > <https://bigthink.com/the-future/pursuit-happiness-doom-intelligent-life-blissful-extinction/>
>       > -------------------
>       > ...
>       >
>       > BillK
>       >
>       > _______________________________________________
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > BillK, this is really as plausible an explanation for the Fermi Paradox as any I have heard, and perhaps the most
>       pleasant one.  Having children is a way to experience happiness, but it is a risky bet indeed.  If we find sufficient
>       alternative routes to happiness, the notion of having children becomes ever less compelling.  If we find alternative
>       routes to the pleasures of copulation and all those cool endorphins we get from love, that whole risky activity isn't
>       worth the effort either.  Result: not enough young people to run the world we already built for them.
>       >
>       > But of course nuclear war could wipe out most of what we have done, creating the need for rebuilders and family people,
>       so we might save our species in that horrifying way: radiation therapy.  Or the singularity could kill us, but I don't
>       think it would kill people who have never seen a computer.  They might survive to build it all back.
>       >
>       > spike
>       >
>       >
>       >
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> 
>