[extropy-chat] Definition of Life (was Human Evolution)

[The Avantguardian]

CurtAdams at aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 11/21/03 3:59:48, avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com writes:

> Two systems composed of the very same chemical constituents and having
>the very same thermodynamic entropy content can have two very different
>biological states. One system can be alive and the other system can be
>dead and a simple chemical analysis will not allow you to determine one
>state from the other.

Not relevant with the conventional definition. The conventional definition 
is that
life is a processs which maintains or reduces its own entropy by increasing 
that
of the environment. A dead organism is no longer maintaining its own 
entropy.
The chemicals will remain similar, but so what? Life is defined as the 
process.


      I am not disputing that life is a process. What I am saying is that the process is information driven and not thermodynamically driven - like Maxwell's demon. 


>Monerae (bacteria and archaea) and protistae (algae and protozoans like 
ameobae >or parameciums) don't age at all will live and reproduce indefinately so 
long as >they have proper nutrients and aren't killed. 

Not true for ciliates. Ciliates can manage only a limited number of asexual
reproductions before they must have sex to reproduce further. Same scheme
as us, adapted for single cells.


Yes, but needing sex to reproduce is not the same thing as dying of old age. Also ciliates are among the most highly derived of protista having evolved relatively late in the natural history of life.  


>Fungi (like yeast and bread mold) eventually undergo senescence but that 
just >means they don't reproduce anymore, they will still live so long as they 
are not >killed. 

No, S. cerevisiae dies too. It gets overwhelmed by these circles of 
ribosomal
rRNA. There are other fungi that age and die as well.

You got me here. I had heard that senescence in S. cerevisae led to sterility but I did not know that they actually died. But after doing a literature search I must concur. This however does not change my point that there are many organisms that do not suffer from senescence and age related mortality. BTW it is rDNA circles not rRNA circles. Do you happen to know if Neurospora dies of old age or not? I am not an expert in fungi. 


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The Avantguardian 


"He stands like some sort of pagan god or deposed tyrant. Staring out over the city he's sworn to . . .to stare out over and it's evident just by looking at him that he's got some pretty heavy things on his mind."

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