[extropy-chat] Simulation Argument critique (was fermi'sparadox:m/d approach)

[Dirk Bruere]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Harvey Newstrom" <mail at harveynewstrom.com>
To: "'ExI chat list'" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 6:53 PM
Subject: RE: [extropy-chat] Simulation Argument critique (was
fermi'sparadox:m/d approach)


> Robert J. Bradbury wrote,
> > On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Harvey Newstrom wrote:
> > > The size/duration/complexity of all real universes is
> > > larger than the size/duration/complexity of all their
> > > simulations put together. [snip]
> >
> > I'm not sure how you justify this Harvey.  It would seem to
> > assume that the universes in which the sims are run are
> > playing by the same laws of physics as our universe.
>
> No, I don't see how.  No matter what laws exist in any universe, the
> simulations within it are subject to those laws.  They cannot break their
> own local physics to store more information per unit of matter/energy than
> is possible in their real universe.  Whatever laws exist in any universe,
> the simulations still are a smaller subset of their universe.  Even by
> consuming all of their universe's resources, they cannot simulate more
than
> their own universe with greater detail.  Therefore, I am saying that the
> total simulation units available in any universe is less than the total
> reality units of its parent universe.  If every real universe is larger
than
> the sum total of all its simulations, then the total of all real universes
> is larger than the sum total of all simulations.


But their 'real universe' may (for example) be a truly continuum one with
infinite computing power.
In which case we are comparing degrees of infinity.

Dirk

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