[extropy-chat] Simulation Argument critique (was fermi's paradox:m/d approach)

[Robert J. Bradbury]

Harvey, Mike and others are discussing the possibility
of sims and I think I see where there may be a misunderstanding.

For example On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, Samantha Atkins wrote:

> I don't get that argument.  If we are in a simulation then our
> science, used to study *what is* may be able to determine that fact.

The point of misunderstanding may be whether or not we are discussing
simulations of "this" universe (or something very close to this
universe) and whether we could sim this universe from within this
universe -- *or* whether we are within a sim of "a" universe which
is simply one of many possible universes.  Dyson may have been
one of the first people to discuss why certain physical constants
happen to be "just right" for this universe to work -- but I think
others have discussed it and there may even now be a couple of
books about it.

So the question really seems to revolve around whether one wants
to create universes similar to ones own (e.g. The Matrix series
or The Truman Show or perhaps even Groundhog Day).  Or whether
one is playing "GOD" and universes (as we perceive them) are
toys where one is simply saying "I wonder what happens when
I change this?".  If one creates a universe where intelligent
life develops and and the physical laws don't form a complete picture
(one could argue we have this now with quantum electrodynamics, gravity
and string theory) then one is going to end up with some pretty
frustrated subjects to study.  (This is a psych experiment with
very intelligent lab rats...).

On the other hand if one is running sims to see if there is an
alter-universe that might be created that one could somehow
transfer into (because the mega-universe has a limited lifetime
perhaps) then things may be a bit trickier.  In that case one
presumably wants the laws to hold together because one is
planning on living in it.  So one wants to run an unflawed
simulation with as few corners cut as possible.

Doesn't this relate to some degree to Permutation City?
(which by now I've largely forgotten).

Robert