[extropy-chat] ENOUGH already

[Harvey Newstrom]

Mike Lorrey wrote,
> All state action is bad. How about that assertion?

Stupid, in my opinion.  You can't say that something (war) done by the state
is bad because everything the state does is bad, but the same exact thing
done by us is good, because everything we do is good.  This is illogical.
You are assigning "good" and "bad" labels on the basis of "us" versus "them"
instead of any criteria of goodness.  If war is bad, and we don't want the
state waging war, then we don't want to become state-like and commit the
same atrocities.

> Because ALL conflict, all state sponsored action, is a cost 
> benefit measured action, not just conflict with guns and 
> other weapons.

This is the root of all war, all terrorism, and all conflict.  The idea that
we can calculate the best good and choose the lesser of two evils.  It
solves nothing.  A communist will calculate a communist end to be the
greater good.  A luddite will calculate a non-technological world was a
greater good.  Some transhumanists will destroy all life and replace
everything with computronium simulating life and call that the greater good.
In short, everybody thinks they are right.  This argument boils down to
saying that we are right therefore we have the right to kill our enemy, but
they are wrong so they don't have the right to kill us.

> > It almost seems as if there is a subgroup of people who 
> > keep trying to justify committing violence as part of
> > the extropian agenda.
> 
> This is an absolutely FALSE assertion, and I request you 
> retract it. This subject is active on this list because of 
> Mark Walker's inane and thinly vieled argument that 
> Extropians should become absolute pacifists.

Is this better?  It almost seems as if there is a subgroup of people who
keep trying to justify that committing violence should be excluded as part
of the extropian agenda.

> There are quite a number of paleo-extropians who look on this 
> list with disgust these days because of these sorts of 
> pacifistic arguments.

I am sorry that non-violence disgusts these people so much.  I worry about
what will happen when people who see violence as a necessary part of
extropianism either gain powerful technology.  Even worse, I hate to imagine
what will happen if they don't gain the powerful technology they desire
while some other groups of extropians do.

-- 
Harvey Newstrom, CISSP, CISA, CISM, IAM, IBMCP, GSEC
Certified IS Security Pro, Certified IS Auditor, Certified InfoSec Manager,
NSA Certified Assessor, IBM Certified Consultant, SANS Certified GIAC
<HarveyNewstrom.com> <Newstaff.com> extropian agenda.