[extropy-chat] Re: Public Schools

[Technotranscendence]

On Monday, January 19, 2004 3:09 PM Kevin Freels kevinfreels at hotmail.com
wrote:
> Wait a minute. I think we may be on the
> same page here except for one thing.

I doubt it.  You are not a libertarian.  I am.  I think you and I
disagree on a lot of issues.

> Are you saying that public education is
> compulsory in your state?

Some form of schooling is complusory.  Whatever form it might be -- and
homeschooling is only tolerated here -- you still have to meet state
requirements.  Also, funding for public schools is compulsory.  I don't
have choice of not paying the taxes for them -- all other things being
equal.

> In Indiana, home schooling is already an
> option that a parent can take. I think there
> is even a division of the school system
> that will assist a parent if they don;t know
> how to get started.

And?

> I've known several
> people who benefitted from home-schooling.

I have never met a homeschooled individual who wasn't a success, though
I admit that I've only met a few.

> Also, I never meant to say that home
> schooling was wrong, bad, or otherwise
> inferior to public education.

Okay.

> My point was that the public school system
> must be there as an option as well since
> there are many who either can't or won;t
> home-school.

So the only choice for you is homeschool or send them to public school?
What about private schools or no schooling?

I disagree about public schools being an option -- unless you mean
something radically different from existing public schools, such as a
public school that is not compulsory and not tax-funded -- i.e., not
public.:)

> Then there was the general complaining
> about how some parents could improve
> their children's education by simply being
> more involved.

I think that's a valid point, but the public school system sets up
incentives for parents to not be involved.  Since it's a "free"
babysitter, many parents use it that way.  Since the system is not
really an exit system but a voice system, involvement has its
limitations.  Try changing the curriculum.

> The public benefits from the availability
> of public education in the long run
> because many children would not learn
> enough to even do labor or count money
> if they didn't have it available.

Wrong.  How did people learn these things before public education?  They
learned them because there was an incentive for it.  In a modern economy
with the need for these skills, I reckon the incentive will even be
stronger to acquire these skills.  I've known illegal aliens who acquite
English skills and the like for similar reasons.

> These children would forever be on the
> public dole.

You tend to look at things too narrowly.  First, the only options aren't
public schooling or being on the public dole.  If that were the ways
things had to be, civilization never would've gotten this far.  There
were no public schools for most of human history...  Second, you don't
consider things like removing incentives not to be productive or
intelligent -- i.e., removing the public dole.  Get rid of it and then
there will be no option to live off the productive.

> I thought you were making a case for
> elimination of the public school system.

I am.

> I realize how it has contributed to the
> cycle of dependency, but that cycle is
> there and could only be removed by a
> long term reduction in dependency
> through several generations.

If that were true -- that dependency were cross-generation -- then we
would never see people getting out of poverty.  Everyone would be
destined to either live as their parents lived or just tiny variations
from there.  In truth, though, if you allow people to voluntarily
interact, they generally will improve their lot.

> As for paying for it, I would rather pay for
> public education and have an option to
> home school combined with a tax-credit
> than continue to foot the bill for highly
> marked up big screen TVs. I don;t even
> have one!

Fine.  You pay for it, but don't force everyone else to pay for it as
well, especially those who disagree with you.  If enough people agree
with you, then why can't the system be voluntary?  If not, then maybe
it's a bad idea.

I don't have a big screen TV either.

Cheers!

Dan
  See "The Hills of Rendome" at:
http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/Rendome.html