[extropy-chat] Politics: US talks of suspending elections
mlorrey at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 12 21:38:12 UTC 2004
--- Dan Clemmensen <dgc at cox.net> wrote:
> Newsweek is effectively the same organization as the Washington Post.
> They are not perfect, and they are not unbiased. However, they do try
> fairly hard to validate their sources. I trust them a lot more than I
> trust the Bush administration. I suggest you re-read "All the
> President's Men." That is the book about the Watergate affair.
I don't trust Newsweek or the Washington Post. US News & World Report
is one of the few reliable sources. While Newsweek does try to verify
sources, it's ability to quote within context is non-existent.
> Two additional points:
> 1) There has been no denial from the administration.
> 2) As I said earlier, someone in government really should be
> thinking about this.
Very true. Should be part of the whole continuity of government
planning that has gone on so much of with the 'shadow' government
swapping places frequently. The election crisis in Florida should have
been warning enough that the Constitution just isn't built to deal with
purposely contrived electoral crises, just as it wasn't built to deal
with a walkout of half of congress in 1860.
> In my opinion, our society needs to de-politicize this discussion to
> the extent possible, and try hard for consensus. We need to quickly
> list the things we can all agree on immediately and list any areas of
> disagreement. This issue is far too important to use in support of
> dogmatic positions of any type. Unfortunately, we are now so badly
> polarized that there is nobody left in the middle to bring us
Keep in mind that the GOP attacked Roosevelt mercilessly during the
heat of WWII, especially at election time, with many 'tyrant' type
arguments. What the enemy seems to think is that us screwing things up
now is going to have some sort of long term results. That just isn't
so, and illustrates their fundamental misunderstanding of our country.
In 1860, the southern states figured they could destroy the federal
government simply by walking out of congress without adjournment,
something the Constitution wasn't written to deal with, creating an
unconstitutional rump legislature. They didn't figure that Lincoln
would ignore the constitutional issues, or that people would put up
with him doing so.
In the mid-20th century, communist forces figured that they could use
the Constitution against its people, infiltrating operatives into the
highest offices (Alger Hess, Harry David White, among others in the
Roosevelt and Truman Administrations) but they didn't figure that
people like Joe McCarthy would call a spade a spade, or that anyone
would listen to Whittaker Chambers and his rotten teeth. They
laughingly went on and got us embedded in proxy wars and welfare
statism, until one fellow came along named Reagan who helped start the
end of the socialist experiment.
Muslim fundamentalists seem to be of similar delusion. They may screw
up this election. Half the people may be convinced they were robbed and
the election stolen, either by terrorists and their liberal apologists,
or by a neo-conservative cabal. Elections, when they exist, are really
just a formality of affirming or denying the confidence of the people
in the leadership of those in power. They can be gamed, because they
are meant to take place in an atmosphere of mutual trust and good
sportsmanship. When one or more parties are intent on gaming and
cheating the system, the results can't and shouldn't be trusted or
relied upon. People should, however, be rightly outraged against
getting played by those intent on deception and manipulation, but they
should be mad at themselves, primarily. It is ultimately a measure of
how much they themselves have willingly given up power, decision
making, and liberties to government and the media.
Chairman, Free Town Land Development
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
-William Pitt (1759-1806)
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