[extropy-chat] FWD [SK] Re: Politics: US talks of suspending

Terry W. Colvin fortean1 at mindspring.com
Wed Jul 14 21:34:59 UTC 2004

On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 09:13:44PM -0700, Terry W. Colvin wrote:
> I swore the same oath. Who did you swear it to? Try reading Lysander
> Spooner's "No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority" if you want
> some interesting reading on oaths of office.

Spooner's treatise is a good debunking of theories of legitimacy based
on "tacit consent" (or explicit consent).  You might be interested in
the response to Spooner in Randy Barnett's _Restoring the Lost
Constitution_ (Princeton Univ. Press, 2003).  (Barnett accepts Spooner's
arguments against consent, but offers an alternative.)
> As for declarations against the American people, have you ever wondered
> why, when you get a traffic ticket, your name is spelled in all capital
> letters? Because that isn't you, it is a corporate strawman the state
> invented when you were born. It names that person, not you, as a 'nom
> de guerre', or war name, for your act of belligerency against the
> corporate occupation state. The corporate state can't regulate you, a
> natural person, for violations of commercial contract (which is all
> that statute/color of law is) unless you accept responsibility for that
> corporate person.

Say what?  Where are you getting this from?  You're not one of those
people who thinks there are magic incantations that you can use in court
that persuade judges that the laws don't apply to you, are you?

The way things work in the real world is, unfortunately, much closer
to "might makes right."  The rule of law, not men, only works so long
as enough people insist upon it and are willing to take action to
throw people out of power who bend or break the rules.
> When did that happen? When you accepted a social security number, got a
> drivers license, applied for welfare or unemployment, or received any
> benefit from the current day government which is not delineated in the
> Constitution. You've given up your liberty for serfdom/POW status to
> the corporate state.

Ah, you are one of those people.  Unfortunately, the distinctions you
are drawing make no difference in reality--your arguments don't work
in the courtroom.
> That would free you. The Neutrality Act of 1940 guarantees it, if you
> rebel against the corporate state, you lose your 14th amendment US
> citizenship and regain your full State Citizenship. For those
> interested in researching it, try reading the post-Civil War
> Expatriation Act, then the Neutrality Act. Acts of rebellion and/or
> secession nullify your US citizenship.
> Mine is nullified. My little flag presentation to Killington in March
> did the trick. I'm now a NH National.

Have you stopped paying federal income taxes?
> > All I ever wanted out of life was to do biomedical
> > research to help people live longer, healthier, and
> > happier lives but the ghosts of Thomas Jefferson and
> > every other patriot who has ever sacrificed money,
> > time, or their life's blood on the altar of freedom
> > would not let me sleep at night if I allowed such an
> > overt perversion of everything America stands for to
> > occur. Tread on me at your peril, Mr. Bush.
> Ah, well, engage in interstate commerce at your own peril. There lies
> the power of US tyranny.

Unfortunately, the definition of "commerce" in the commerce clause has
been extended far beyond the original meaning, even including actions
that are neither trade nor cross state lines.  (One recent reversal is
Raich v. Ashcroft, in which the above-cited Randy Barnett was one of
the attorneys for the plaintiff--at the moment, in the 9th Circuit, the
cultivation of cannabis for personal medical use is legal, and the federal
government is enjoined from prosecutions.   One of the plaintiff's
arguments which was upheld by the 9th Circuit is that the feds have no
power to regulate since there is no interstate commerce involved.)

Jim Lippard

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice

Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1 at mindspring.com >
     Alternate: < fortean1 at msn.com >
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