[extropy-chat] Re: Gandhi's antipode

[Ody777 at comcast.net]

Mike Lorrey wrote (4 Oct):

<<Proud pacifists always seem to conclude that Gandhism is pure pacifism,
when it is not. Gandhism is a specific strategy of non-violent
resistance that ONLY functions when the oppressor state has a free
press and a populace that both controls who sits in government and
considers themselves moral and compassionate people. Gandhism does not work with amoral regiemes, with states lacking in public virtue, open
channels of communication, or a means by which the public can hold the
state responsible.>>


However, Gandhi himself apparently believed his tactics could be effective against totalitarian regimes:


From
http://www.claremont.org/writings/precepts/19991228arnn.html?FORMAT=print :

In fact Gandhi, a great man in some respects, did not understand Hitler nor the totalitarianism of which Hitler is one of the two supreme representatives. Gandhi's doctrine of nonviolence would have met with different results, had he been applying that doctrine against such a man and such a regime as Hitler and Nazi Germany. In November 1938, Gandhi went so far as to advise the Jews of Europe to offer only nonviolent resistance to Hitler. As he gave this advice, he also advised Britain, France, and America not to declare war upon Germany. 



From
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/mar/15arvind.htm :

That document was reportedly published in 1940 when Great Britain braced herself to face a German invasion. It urged 'cessation of hostilities' through an 'open letter' to 'every Briton' and said, in part, as follows: 
'... I want you to fight Nazism without arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them... I am telling His Excellency the Viceroy that my services are at the disposal of His Majesty's Government, should they consider them of any practical use in advancing the object of my appeal.' (Stanley Wolpert's Jinnah of Pakistan , pp. 187-188 as cited on page 144 of Chapter I of Constitutional Law of India , Supplement to Third Edition, 1988, written and published by H M Seervai, a giant in the field of constitutional history.) 

The author of the above 'open letter' was, not Veer Savarkar, but Mahatma Gandhi. It was a demonstration of his belief in the creed of ahimsa, non-violence. 




>From a pro-Gandhian site (which seems to indicate that this is an actual quote from Gandhi, but if not, it still shows how one Gandhian pacifist replies to a question on Nazi tyanny): 
http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/hitler.htm

Q:
"Mr. Gandhi,  I understand the concept of non-violence and civil dis-obedience. Do you really think it would work in all situations?   For example, against a monster like Hitler ?" 

A:
Non-violence does not mean making peace. On the other hand, it means fighting bravely and sincerely for truth and doing what is just. Like all fights, there will be a terrible loss and pain. But a satyagrahi (soldier of civil disobedience) must go on. 

My success with civil disobedience in South Africa and in India has not come easy. A large number of people sacrificed a great deal, including their lives while fighting for truth and justice. 

The doctrine of Satyagraha works on the principle that you make the so called enemy see and realize the injustice he is engaged in. It can work only when you believe in God and the goodness of the people to see that they are wrong. As a satyagrahi, I  do believe that non-violence is a potent weapon against all evils. I warn you however, that the victory will not come easy- just like it will not come easy with violent methods such as fighting with weaponry. 



The following does purport to be a real Gandhi quote (but is it?!):
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Gandhi 

"Hitler killed five million [sic] Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs." 
  --Comment to biographer Louis Fisher (June, 1946). 



On Gandhi’s apparent naivete about Hitler, see also (from another pro-Gandhi site):
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/gandhihitler.html
(“Mahatma Gandhi’s letter to Hitler”)



Rob Masters