[extropy-chat] Consciousness is a process in multi-dimensional time![Was: Qualia Bet]

[gts]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:17:19 -0500, Marc Geddes <marc.geddes at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> On 12/15/05, Brent Allsop <allsop at extropy.org> wrote:

> Atoms can't have 'phenomenal' properties of the type your're describing.

I can't be sure if my meaning of "phenomenal properties" is identical to  
Brent's but I would say that atoms might have phenomenal properties in so  
much as they emit detectable particles. Experiments have shown that the  
human eye/brain can perceive even a single photon.

The question, "What does a photon X look like?" is to me identical to the  
question, "What is the optical phenomenal property of photon X?" i.e.,  
what are its Lockean secondary qualities?

In Locke's view, the secondary qualities of an object are derived from its  
real primary qualities, qualities such as 'number' and 'shape,' which in  
the context of this discussion seem suspiciously platonic in nature. One  
could say the secondary quality or phenomenal property of a photon ("what  
it is like" to see it) is derived from its primary wavelength quality.  
Wavelength is a primary quality of photons even though Locke did not list  
"wavelength" as a possible primary quality of objects. (In Locke's day  
light was not yet understood.)

The secondary qualities of objects (their associated qualia) are defined  
and determined by their real and objective primary qualities. In this  
sense they are real and objective. Any intelligent being equipped with the  
right sensory apparatus could experience them.

For example green objects would be actually green in objective reality --  
green objects would be green even in a universe devoid of sentient beings,  
like platonic ideas -- but like platonic idea of roundness, only beings  
capable of seeing greenness could appreciate this quality of green objects.

-gts