[extropy-chat] Death Toll/and not merely a great ethicist with lengthy hands-on Defense background

[Bret Kulakovich]

On Jul 11, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Damien Sullivan wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 11, 2005 at 09:09:58AM -0400, Bret Kulakovich wrote:
>
>>
>> I would like to posit that we view the lives as equal in value, or we
>> wouldn't be in Iraq in the first place.
>>
>
> No, the war was sold largely on the grounds of Iraq having WMDs,  
> e.g. on the
> grounds of Iraq being a threat to us.  If we really cared about  
> lives we'd be
> intervening in the Sudan and in Zimbabwe, and funding a lot more  
> foreign aid
> in clean water and health care.

and

On Jul 9, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Mike Lorrey wrote:
>
> The distinction between the cold war and the present is that trade  
> with
> the states sponsoring or otherwise supporting terrorism is too
> lucrative for a cold war strategy of economic embargo, as we employed
> against the Soviets and the Warsaw Pact. Seing how the coalition
> against Iraq unravelled through the 90's as the UN, nations and
> individuals were bribed to corrupt the system, doing the same to Saudi
> Arabia, Iran, Syria, and others would not last long, not unless the
> terrorists really get agressive and attack France, Germany, and Russia
> as well.


Lets look at this as a history lesson, like talking about the crash  
of the German mark in the early 20th century. It may hurt less if we  
do it that way. I am trying not to blur any of this. To keep the NPOV  
as it were.

This isn't about WMD, and it is not about Oil. It is about social  
infection. Break out a world map and look at the countries involved.  
There is a belt tightening from both ends of the Middle East/Persia.  
What motivates it? Consider - If you project forward 20 years, when  
there is technological parody between the west and rulers who  
currently take quiet offense to western civilization, what would  
happen next? If these rulers are answering directly to God, then they  
rule without question or consequence, and the people will follow. If  
those people had freedom of choice and a better quality of life,  
would they decide not to fight?

I am not trying to propagate anything here, I'm not even saying I am  
convinced of the above. Just look at the situation, the maps, the  
parties involved. Is it based in fear? Well sure, to some degree. But  
saying an insurgence was unexpected? Unadmitted, perhaps, because it  
would be unpopular. The long road was taken in this instance, from  
the beginning. People have been wondering why the US didn't plop down  
the 350k+ from the Gulf War. It's not because we don't have them. It  
isn't because of Afghanistan. It is long term resource rotation, to  
season as many soldiers as possible for the future, and to remain  
capable of having a go at perhaps a 3rd or 4th instance as well.

There are models that that have 'worked'. Japan, South Korea. Others.  
Exposure to the west makes western culture propagate. As Mike Lorrey  
stated in a previous post - no, the west cannot embargo the countries  
involved because the west is over a barrel both literally and  
figuratively. But where the west cannot bankrupt these countries  
financially, they can bankrupt them morally.

The easiest answers just arent the best in this case. Plenty of  
people want to bang the drum of 'he (Bush) did it for his father'  
while others say Bush isn't really  in control. Others want to  
comfort themselves with the simplicity of 'no blood for oil' - which  
appeals to anyone who has ever played Risk or Age of Empires as well.  
We are an opportunity seeking species regardless of theological  
inclination. When presented, we will leverage anything we can. We can  
take your resources, so we will. What these ideas have in common is  
an immediate horizon, and a simple enough plot for the average R- 
rated moviegoer. What they lack is projection, rationale and accuracy.

Thoughts? It's Bret with one 't' if its going in your killfile. =)


]3
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