[extropy-chat] Who thinks the Bush admin lied over Iraq? Onwhatbasis?

The Avantguardian avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 12 21:09:34 UTC 2005



--- Robert Lindauer <robgobblin at aol.com> wrote:

> >
> >For Pete's sake, Rob. Quit insulting Brett. 
> >
> 
> Why, turnabout is fair play?
> 
I was unaware that Brett started it. That seems to be
rather uncharacteristic of Brett.


> >Brett has
> >very little stake in this debate.
> >
> Obviously, otherwise he'd have taken the time to
> inform himself about it.

I don't know about that. He seems to be better
informed than the average American voter. And that's a
sad sorry shame.

> 
> > He is not some
> >Republican defending Bush's actions, he is a
> complete
> >outsider (in Australia) that is trying to form an
> >unbiased opinion on the war.
> >
> 
> Obviously not "unbiased".

No sentient being is completely unbiased about
anything. That is WHY they call it self-interest. For
what it's worth, however, I think it is critical for
America to realize that alleged crimes by a President
and a major land war, justified or not, trumps
politics in general any distinction of left or right
is mute. If Bush were a Democrat, I would still be
outraged by his actions. It is time to start thinking
about how WE THE PEOPLE are going to survive this
mess.



> 
> > By your pointless
> >name-calling, you are only serving to justify the
> low
> >opinion that other nations have of us right now and
> >furthermore you are making the OTHER side of the
> >political spectrum more appealing to him by
> >comparison.
> >
> 
> Oh pleeze, grow up.  Have you ever watched
> parliament?  Poltics is 
> UGLY.  The world has a low opinion of America
> BECAUSE of our 
> administration not because there are lots of us
> complaining about it.  
> That part they barely get to hear.

Politics is ugly. But nowhere near as ugly as war.
Insulting the other side in a debate is great
rhetorical trick on a playground. Intelligent adults,
however, just realize it means you don't have anything
more substantive to say.

> > Nobody has ever convinced anyone of
> >anything by insulting them.
> >  
> >
> I agree, but then I said, I'm not trying to convince
> anyone anymore.  
> I'm just not willing to let the self-satisfied
> smugness of right-wing 
> statist appologists (paid or unpaid) go unnoticed.

Then your cause is already lost. And in as much as I
want a speedy peaceful resolution to this mess and
oath-breakers to be brought to justice, I suppose mine
is too.

> 
> The rhetoric of the right BEGINS with ridicule, when
> people who aren't 
> on the right fight back they complain - I say f-em. 
> And if you're as 
> far off the left-right scale as me, nothing you say
> has much chance of 
> -convincing- very many people at all.  But that's
> not why you say it.

It's not the one who begins a conflict that wins but
the one who ends it. If your cake of "truth" is
frosted with insults, nobody will eat it. There were a
great many undecideds before the last election, if the
right is telling everyone you are a conspiracy nutter
and you begin your sales pitch with "Hey, Stupid . .
." you are doing more harm to your cause then good. 

The Avantguardian 
is 
Stuart LaForge
alt email: stuart"AT"ucla.edu

"The surest sign of intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't attempted to contact us." 
-Bill Watterson


		
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