[extropy-chat] Re: Death Toll

[Evan Hamlin]

First, as this is my first post, I'll introduce myself. I'm Evan Hamlin, 
pleased to "meet" all of you. I hope to have some interesting exchanges with 
you all.

Extropists, your thoughts on the following please. I found it to have some 
quite valid points, despite perhaps an overly "call to arms" tone. In many 
places, replace "muslims" with "muslim terrorists" for the purpose of the 
article; the author (who is anonymous as far as I know) is a bit insensitive 
to this...


To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go
through it. Our country is now facing the most serious
threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have
faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).


The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the
fact that there are very few of us who think we can
possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what
losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say
September 11th, 2001.
The answer as far as the United
States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to
September 2001, with the following attacks on us:
Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
Aden, Yemen U S S  Cole 2000;
New York World Trade Center 2001;
Pentagon 2001.  (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001
there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked?  Envy of our position, our
success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during
the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
1, Clinton and Bush
2. We cannot fault either the
Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations
by any of the presidents or their immediate
predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

3. Who were the attackers?   In each case, the attacks
on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?   25%

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?  Hopefully, but
that is really not material.  There is no doubt that
the predominately Christian population of Germany was
peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of
Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no
difference.  You either went along with the
administration or you were eliminated.  There were 5
to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(see http://>/).

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed
by the Nazis, as the 6 million holocaust Jews who were
killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other
than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the
world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about
killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the
Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian
or any others.  Same with the Muslim terrorists.  They
focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -
their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone
else.
    The point here is that just like the peaceful
Germans were of no protection to anyone from the
Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may
be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist
Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on
doing - by their own pronouncements - killing all of
us "infidels".  I don't blame the peaceful Muslims.
What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?  There is no way we can
honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
Muslim terrorists.  Trying to be politically correct
and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be
fatal.  There is no way to win if you don't clearly
recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major
questions:
1. Can we lose this war?
2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two
pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war,  and as anomalous as
it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so
many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the
second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that
losing the war means hanging our heads,  bringing the
troops home and going on about our business, like post
Vietnam.  This is as far from the truth as one can
get.  What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the
world.  The attacks will not subside,  but rather will
steadily increase.  Remember, they want us dead, not
just quiet.  If they had just wanted us quiet,  they
would not have produced an increasing series of
attacks against us, over the past 18 years.  The plan
was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were
neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other
nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that
they would see, we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one
at a time.  It will be increasingly easier for them.
They already hold Spain hostage.  It doesn't matter
whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw
its troops from Iraq.  Spain did it because the Muslim
terrorists bombed their train and told them to
withdraw the troops.  Anything else they want Spain to
do, will be done.  Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on
France is that they might see the light and realize
that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that
they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us.
However, it may already be too late for France.
France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports
and way of life will all vanish as we know it.  After
losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were
threatened by the Muslims.  If we can't stop the
Muslims, how could anyone else?  The Muslims fully
know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost.   We
better know it too and be likewise committed to
winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of
losing?  Simple. Until we recognize the costs of
losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our
thoughts and efforts into winning.  And it is going to
take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?  Again, the answer is
simple.  We can lose the war by " imploding".  That
is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the
enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and
lending full support to the war effort.  If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose.  If we
continue to be divided, there is no way that we can
win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't
comprehend the life and death seriousness of this
situation.

- President Bush selects Norman Minutia as Secretary
of Transportation.  Although all of the terrorist
attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40
years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow
profiling.   Does that sound like we are taking this
thing seriously?  This is war!  For the duration, we
are going to have to give up some of the civil rights,
we have become accustomed to. We had better be
prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily
or we will most certainly lose all of them
permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope.  We gave
up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately
restored them after the victory and in fact added many
more since then.  Do I blame President Bush or
President Clinton before him?   No, I blame us for
blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political
Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this
conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war.
None of those words apply to war.  Get them out of
your head.

- Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war
and/or the Administration that it almost seems they
would literally like to see us lose.  I hasten to add
that this isn't because they are disloyal.  It is
because they just don't recognize what losing means.
Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the
enemy that we are divided and weakening, it concerns
our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

- Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the
politicians and media regarding the treatment of some
prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am
saying.
     We have recently had an issue, involving the
treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small
group of our military police.  These are the type
prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing
their own people off buildings, cutting off their
hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise
murdering their own people just for disagreeing with
Saddam Hussein.
    And just a few years ago these same
type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own
people for the same reason.  They are also the same
type enemy fighters, who recently were burning
Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through
the streets of Iraq.   And still more recently, the
same type enemy that was and is providing videos to
all news sources internationally, of the beheading of
American prisoners they held.
      Compare this with someof our press and politicians, who for several 
days have thought and talked about nothing else but the
"humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners - not burning
them, not dragging their charred corpses through the
streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
Can this be for real?  The politicians and pundits
have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of
Defense.  If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of
the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle
we are in and the disastrous results of losing this
war, nothing can.
    To bring our country to a virtual
political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us
look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -
totally oblivious to what is going on in the real
world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive
this internal strife.  Again I say, this does not mean
that some of our politicians or media people are
disloyal.   It simply means that they are absolutely
oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in
and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing
us, for many years.  Remember, the Muslim terrorists
stated goal is to kill all infidels!  That translates
into all non-Muslims - not just in the United States,
but throughout the world.  We are the last bastion of
defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being
'arrogant'.  That charge is valid in at least one
respect.   We are arrogant in that we believe that we
are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the
hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that
with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat
anything bad in the world!  We can't!  If we don't
recognize this, our nation as we know it will not
survive, and no other free country in the World will
survive if we are defeated.   And finally, name any
Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech,  freedom of thought,  freedom of
religion,  freedom of the Press,  equal rights for
anyone - let alone everyone, equal status or any
status for women,  or that have been productive in one
single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be
united on this war or we will be equated in the
history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman
Empire.  If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow
history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye
on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5
years or less.  They will continue to increase the
Muslim population, of France and continue to encroach
little by little, on the established French
traditions.  The French will be fighting among
themselves, over what should or should not be done,
which will continue to weaken them and keep them from
any united resolve.   Doesn't that sound eerily
familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from
them by some external military force.  Instead, they
give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by
politically correct piece.   And they are giving those
freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that
they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or
even to themselves, once they are in power.   They
have universally shown that when they have taken over,
they then start brutally killing each other over who
will be the few who control the masses.   Will we ever
stop hearing from the politically correct, about the
"peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said
above.   If we are united, there is no way that we can
lose.   I hope now after the election, the factions in
our country will begin to focus on the critical
situation we are in, and will unite to save our
country.   It is your future we are talking about!  Do
whatever you can to preserve it.

-Evan
"The world is more beautiful through tinted glass."

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