[extropy-chat] Re: Gay marriage in Spain, a world of change

[Harvey Newstrom]

On Jul 20, 2005, at 3:56 PM, Mike Lorrey wrote:

>
> --- mail at harveynewstrom.com wrote:
>
>> Evan Hamlin writes:
>>
>>> Myself, I have gay
>>> friends and treat them no differently than any of my other friends.
>>
>> Yes you do.  You want to impose different laws and rights on your gay
>> friends than your non-gay friends.
>
> Well, no, I don't think that is what he means. What he means, I
> believe, is that everyone has an equal right to marry anyone of the
> opposite sex they wish. No discrimination there.

Everyone has an equal right to marry a person of the same race.  No 
discrimination there.
Everyone has an equal right to marry a person of the same religion.  No 
discrimination there.
Everyone has an equal right to marry a person of the same nationality.  
No discrimination there.
Everyone has an equal right to marry a person the government allows.  
No discrimination there.

>>> However, I do not believe that gay unions should
>>> be made equal to the union between a man and woman; the only kind
>> of union
>>> which makes sense in the eyes of nature, and even God for that
>> matter
>>> (though that matters little to me, being non-religious).
>>
>> You think homosexuality doesn't exist in nature?
>
> There is a distinction between existing in nature and being normal.
> "Normal" being defined as that behavior engaged in by 90+% of the
> population of that species.

Heterosexual marriage is not engaged in by 90+% of the population, so 
it must not be normal behavior.
Monogamy is not engaged in by 90+% of the population, so it must not be 
normal behavior.
Children are not produced by 90+% of the population, so it must not be 
normal behavior.
Internet use is not engaged in by 90+% of the population, so it must 
not be normal behavior.

>>> To say that it has existed for thousands of years doesn't validate
>>> it either.
>>
>>> Homosexuality is not NORMAL.
>>
>> How can something that has been naturally occurring for thousands of
>> years not be normal?
>
> The typical *natural* expression of homosexual behavior in the wild is
> typically (especially among apes and monkeys) a form of dominance, i.e.
> initiations of force to maintain social pecking orders.

Typical natural expression of *heterosexual* behavior in the wild is 
also (especially among apes and monkeys)  a form of dominance.  Are you 
claiming that homosexual animals practice more dominance over other 
monkeys than heterosexual animals?  Or that heterosexual encounters in 
animals are more loving and equal than homosexual encounters in 
animals?

>>> That doesn't mean it is evil or terrible or anything of the sort.
>> It is
>>> simply not normal. And to pass laws making it so seems to me to be
>> a step
>>> in the wrong direction.
>>
>> The laws don't say it is normal.  It just says it is not so evil and
>> terrible that the government must intervene to stop it.
>
> Well, no, Harvey, that isn't what the law does. The gay marriage law
> grants subsidies to those who seek government endorsement and
> certification of their natural but abnormal practices.

The *heterosexual* marriage law grants the exact same subsidies to 
those who seek government endorsement and certification of their 
natural but abnormal practices.  What's the difference?

--
Harvey Newstrom <HarveyNewstrom.com>
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