[extropy-chat] Why I am No Longer a Libertarian Either...

[Robert Lindauer]

I don't morally romanticize poor people.  I just don't lay all of the 
blame for their poverty on them - our social system creates the 
circumstances in which some people become very wealthy and others very 
poor and a "middle class" that thinks it's rich (mostly because of the 
government-sponsored public 'education' system) but really has nothing 
at all (mostly because of the government-sponsored economic system). 

Poor people are not somehonw more deserving of help than other (rich) 
people because they're morally superior but rather because they (we, I 
should say, I'm not what you'd call rich over here but I'm not asking 
for handouts) have a need and it is our responsibility as humans to help 
our brothers and sisters in need.  On the other hand, the 
extraordinarily powerful and incidentally wealthy war mongers that run 
our country do morally reprehensible things when they perpetuate the 
poverty of the poor in order to feed their war machine and solidify 
their own power.  It's -theoretically- possible to do good and be 
wealthy.  If you use your wealth to lift other people out of poverty or 
cure sick people or stop wars, etc., those are all good things.  I 
believe that the CEO of World Vision is wealthy, but he apparently uses 
his power and wealth to feed a lot of people, it's commendable.  One 
can't expect anyone to be perfect - to do always and only the absolute 
best thing they could do.  So if he wants to have a Martini and Duck a 
L'orange for dinner, it's possible that that's just the price we have to 
pay for having someone like that around.  OTOH, someone who creates 
their wealth by exploiting workers in southeast asia who then turns 
around and donates toke amounts to local community events doesn't get 
much sympathy for me.  Is there an absolute line?  No.  Should there 
be?  No.

In our present situation, however, some evil people have taken over the 
government and it is consequently important to do something about it.

As for "marxists automatically claim" - remember that "marxists" are 
people, like you.  People are different, even marxists and other people 
you may not like.  There is no predicting on the basis of someone's 
Marxism exactly what they'll say on any particular occasion.  There are 
as many different Marxist interpretations as there are intepretors.  I 
know a self-identifying marxist (which I am not, btw - I believe some of 
the social analysis to be relevant and useful) who supports the Bush 
Administration (and rightly so, the Bush administration is the closest 
to an absolutist socialist we've had as President of the US - just 
without the claimed good intentions), for instance.

Robbie


Al Brooks wrote:

> Always keep in mind so many of the poor are 'violently protective' of 
> them and theirs, and don't blame this on their being "brutalized" as 
> Marxists automatically claim they are. I have associated with the poor 
> since leaving home in '76, have seen exactly how the rich are 
> different from the rest of us; Mencken pointed out the rich have more 
> money, which is the only discernable difference-- the ethics of the 
> rich being no lower than the poor.
> There is a widespread assumption that since the poor are much lower 
> down economically they are nobler, when such is not at all the case. 
> How many of you have hung out longterm with the poor, talked to them 
> regularly, probed deeply into the way they think? It's not a matter of 
> pride having been with the poor, it has been nothing but entirely 
> depressing.
> There is nothing noble about poverty or the poor, except in the minds 
> of romanticizers. It's not good form to beg, but I beg you to 
> understand these claims come from almost thirty years experience.
>
>
>  >You're an imperialist protectionist
> >republican in disguise providing nothing more than an psychological
> >outlet for spoiled rich children of the Alex P. Keaton sort who want to
> .rebel from their parents but wouldn't be caught dead helping poor
> >people.
>
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