[extropy-chat] 70% oppose resumption of military conscription

[Mike Lorrey]

--- c c <beb_cc at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Your logic is impeccable, in the instance of a foreign
> invasion or flagrant disregard of treaties the
> pragmatic course would be to conscript those capable
> of bearing arms. However I was referring to the moral
> violation of the individual by the state in drafting
> civilians, acceptable to statists. For a libertarian
> to advocate conscription or even registering for
> concription (registration is reality today) would be a
> negation of the spirit if not the letter of the
> libertarian creed. 
> Your position is sound from the legal, pragmatic and
> collective moral sense-- yet there is a little more to
> it. You are tacitly admitting the state can supercede
> the individual but there is no real contradiction with
> you; all the same I am suggesting the individual can
> in this context decisively supercede the state in the
> very narrowest ethical sense. So we will have to agree
> to disagree. There is no satisfactory philosophical
> modus vivendi in this. Time will tell... there may be
> a draft later rather than sooner. Or vice versa.
> 

I tend to distinguish "is" from "ought" rather rationally, rather than
living in the land of 'ought' that too many libertarians do while
holding fingers in their ears. One of the things about "is" is that,
being one of the people who make up the militia, who participates in
the electorate and receives benefits from the state, both of tangible
and intangible nature, benefits which all libertarians also receive
while either denying their existence due to their intangibility or
otherwise making excuses, and while engaged in contracts with the state
(i.e. drivers license, deposit insurance) as well as engaging in
commerce that enjoys pricing benefits, consumer fraud protections, etc.
we are all caught up in a web of contract with the state which we
cannot get out of unless we engage in no public commerce on the open
channels, ways, or seas. 

Being caught up in this system, which, while being onerous, burdensome,
and in some ways oppressive and confiscatory of property and rights,
one must first evaluate the alternatives in current existence and one
sees that as bad as it is, it is still one of the best around, and all
of the few others that are better would not allow our immigration
there.

This being said, one does have the possibility of changing the system
through electoral politics, as I have been engaged in the last few
years. Yet I find that my efforts are hamstrung by the fact that many
of those who would support me and my candidates have a high incidence
of refusing to vote on claimed "philosophical grounds", claiming doing
so is consent to be oppressed by the majority, yet these same persons
also do not lift a finger in the only alternative, revolution, with
excuses of not 'initiating force' on "principle". The excuse making is
pungent and indicative of the symptomatic O.D.D. predeliction for
'being right' to ones own physical or financial detriment.

So, when I hear other libertarians giving me flak for my positions,
which I have worked out from first principles and pragmatic application
to reality, I generally write it off to their ODD. I appreciate, in
this instance, your honest and open evaluation of my logic and hope you
are able to appreciate that there is a difference from how things "is"
vs. how they "ought" to be. 

So long as there is tyranny in the world, there will be rational
excuses for statists to maintain powerful states, to 'protect' the rest
of us from the boogeymen, as well as ourselves. The fear of tyranny
from without will always convince the majority to accept 'temporary'
tyranny from within, and so long as those who cherish liberty make
excuses for not revolting, they lack the moral authority to disparage
those who work against the state via legitimate means, or who use the
state to destroy tyranny elsewhere.


Mike Lorrey
Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
                                      -William Pitt (1759-1806) 
Blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com

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