[extropy-chat] Atheism in Decline

[Joseph Bloch]

Mike Lorrey wrote:

>Josephs statements here imply to me another confirmation of what I see
>so commonly: most atheists suffer from stunted theology and a lack of
>sophisticated spiritual education, at least under whatever organized
>religion they were raised in (or lack thereof)
>

I've gotta say, your inferences from ignorance are just... pathetic.

At the risk of being accused of being inspired by Jeff's recent post 
(and that's an accusation I will accept and acknowledge gladly)...

I, too, have studied and earnestly practiced more religions than 90% of 
the world's population who live their entire lives in the faith of their 
fathers, and their fathers' fathers. I wasn't raised in any particular 
religion; my father is Jewish and my mother is Protestant, so the 
closest I came to religion growing up was getting presents for both 
Christmas and Hannukah.

I've read the Eddas, Heimskringla, and more than my share of Icelandic 
Sagas in the original Old Icelandic (which I took the trouble to learn 
because most English translations just suck, and so I could conduct 
Norse rituals in the ancient tongue); and more than one version of the 
Christian Bible. The Talmud, the Zohar, the Ugarit Texts of the 
Canaanites, the Upanishads, the Satanic Bible, the Book of Coming Forth 
By Night, Ovid, Homer, the Book of the Dead, Wiccan books and Muslim 
books and Christian books and and scores more are under my belt.

I've invoked Astaroth, taken Communion, offered blood to Odhinn and mead 
to ThorR and incense to the Lares, made boasts and oaths in sumbl, and 
called the Guardians of the Corners. I've cast spells of protection and 
curses, risted and read runes, banished evil spirits, conducted Augury, 
laid out tarot cards and hunted ghosts in centuries old shadow-haunted 
graveyards on the new moon. I founded the largest Roman 
Reconstructionist pagan organization in the world, as well as several 
Asatru kindreds and a Satanic coven.

To Dirk I say give me my due; I know what I'm talking about when I 
critique Asatru; have YOU ever offered a blood-sacrifice to Odhinn in 
Old Norse?

To say I have a "stunted theology" is just ignorant. My "knowledge of 
theology" and my "spiritual education" exceeds that of the vast majority 
of people on this planet, and much of it is gleaned from personal 
experience. I wanted to believe so badly, my quest led me to the most 
improbable places, hoping for something to believe in. And when I've 
entered those places, it is whole-hog, for many years-- more than a 
decade in some cases.

And the fruit of that experience, gleaned of a lifetime of discovery, 
intense research, personal reflection and experience?

It's all mummery. Tricks of the mind that we play on ourselves and 
others, and which are magnified by mutual reinforcement. The human brain 
is wired through thousands of years of evolution to accept such 
"spiritual experiences", and we have given those experiences context 
through the invention of culture and more specifically religion. You 
tickle the right part of the brain and a Christian will see Jesus (or 
Mary), a Muslim will see Paradise, a Hindu will see Vishnu, because 
that's how they've been culturally programmed to interpret such 
experiences. Some few contrarians have managed to break that cultural 
programming, but they still fill in the responses to those 
brain-chemistry experiences with their own personal religious 
expectations. Dirk sees Odin, Z Budapest sees The Goddess, etc.

But just because we are interpreting-- completely unconsciously-- those 
brain chemistries in a particular way, dictated in large part by 
culture, does not make those interpretations objectively true. Just 
because Dirk "experiences the gods" doesn't make them true outside of 
his own mind, any more than the fact that Jerry Fallwell "experiences 
Christ" makes him any more true outside Fallwell's mind.

And then there are us poor atheists, who recognize these factors at 
work, and deny the interpretations. And many of us don't share those 
experiences in the first place (us poor benighted "non-spiritual" 
atheists). I submit that a portion of the population (10% or so, based 
on consistent polling data) simply doesn't have those genes that lead to 
those "spiritual experiences". I don't.

Imagine the mutual frustration! Our brains are literally wired 
differently! No wonder we never get anywhere.

Joseph

Enhance your body "beyond well" and your mind "beyond normal":
http://www.humanenhancement.com

New Jersey Transhumanist Association:
http://www.goldenfuture.net/njta