[extropy-chat] against ID

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Mon Nov 21 19:37:13 UTC 2005


On Mon, Nov 21, 2005 at 12:07:57PM -0700, Brent Allsop wrote:

> I don't believe in the simulation argument for two reasons.

I don't believe in SA (or an effective infinity of similiar
production processes) for one reason: we don't have one shred of evidence
for it.
 
> 1. Our consciousness is made up of qualia or phenomenal properties.  While

Did you know that phlogiston has negative weight? 
http://www.jimloy.com/physics/phlogstn.htm

> these can be simulated or modeled by other abstract phenomena - the
> simulations isn't like the real thing.  We could be brains in vats, and the

Ich kann, so zu sagen, mein chemisches Wasser nicht halten und muss ihnen sagen,
dich Harnstoff machen kann, ohne dazu die Niere oder ueberhaupt ein Thier, sey 
es Mensch oder Hund, noethig zu haben. 

> rest of the world being simulated.  But the brain, or whatever is producing
> these phenomenal properties in our consciousness cannot be simulated.  They
> are the real thing.

Computers can't play chess. They can only simulate playing chess.
 
> 2. I believe and hope that any being powerful enough to "design" any such
> system would also, via logic, be a moral/benevolent being.  In other words,

Why do ALife researchers simulate virtual landscapes, red in tooth and claw?
They're ethical allright. They just don't see the critters suffering, they're
not complex enough by far.

People are not complex enough to feel fremth and to drial 0x89797afdfds9798afd,
thus people are safe to simulate.

> they would never produce so much suffering and ignorance as we experience
> for any reason because such would be immoral.  I have confidence that
> whatever they would be trying to accomplish with such a simulation, could be
> accomplished without so much phenomenal/conscious suffering.  In other

Allright, just remove consciousness, and feel the simulation with zombies.
Torture them all you will, they won't feel a thing.

> words, the existence of evil is the proof that God or any intelligent
> designer does not YET exist.  At least I hope such is true and I would be
> willing to bet my eternal life (risk going to hell for eternity because I do
> not believe in God...) on it.

-- 
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
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