[extropy-chat] Qualia Bet.

[Brent Allsop]

gts,

Yes, I think we are very much in agreement with our philosophies.

But please don't say phenomenal properties are outside of "the sum of all
possible scientific knowledge" as this is clearly not true.  We can
theororise about and do experiments with our own minds and see what quale
result and so on.  Not to mention what will be possible once we start neural
hacking, observing, and effing.  This is all very real "GOOD OLD SCIENCE".
It's just that phenomenal properties cannot be adequately represented or
communicated via abstract system based purely on causal properties.  Most
traditional science to date only dealt with causal properties - but this is
now about to drastically change as we finally start to hack, theorize about
and experiment with our phenomenal consciousness.

Brent Allsop



> -----Original Message-----
> From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-
> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of gts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: ExI chat list
> Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Qualia Bet.
> 
> On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:06:50 -0500, John K Clark <jonkc at att.net> wrote:
> 
> > "Brent Allsop" <allsop at extropy.org>
> >
> >> Phenomenal properties are in addition to the causal properties our
> cause
> >> and effect senses can detect.
> >
> > So on Monday Wednesday and Friday Phenomenal properties can NOT be
> > detected by cause and effect and so on those days I suggest you stop
> > using euphuisms and just call it a soul.
> 
> I think all Brent is trying to say here that all the objective knowledge
> of causes and effects in the world (the sum of all possible scientific
> knowledge) cannot reveal to A what it is like for B to experience qualia.
> I agree completely. It's going to take some sort mind-meld technology to
> do that, what Brent calls "effing", and even then it's possible that
> something will get lost in the translation.
> 
> -gts
> 
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