[extropy-chat] Re: peak oil debate framed from a game theorystandpoint ?

[Mike Lorrey]

Your chemistry book deals with converting sugar. You need to turn to
the pages where it talks about the decay products of the starches,
fiber, protiens, and other compounds that make up plant structure. Ever
heard of swamp gas? It's methane. Comes from when man or nature dumps
plant waste en masse. Now considered 12 times more greenhousey than
CO2, and plants don't absorb it from the atmosphere like they do CO2.

--- Robert Lindauer <robgobblin at aol.com> wrote:

> Interesting, my chemistry book says:
> 
> C6Hl2O6 → 2 CH3CH2OH + 2 CO2 + energy
> 
> glucose ethyl alcohol carbon dioxide
> 
> As for fallow land, in 1980, around 170,000 acres in Hawaii were 
> dedicated to sugar production, now down to 20k acres, with 150k acres
> laying, for the most part, fallow.

Actually, returning to jungle, as it should.

> 
> Here it's good sense.
> 
> In the midwest where they continue to produce corn in abundance, 
> corn-produced alcohol averages about $2.12 per gallon buying corn at 
> market rates, not even touching the abundant supply.
> 
> Robbie
> 
> 
> Mike Lorrey wrote:
> 
> >On the contrary, and contrary to the Green agrarian mythology,
> putting
> >the burden on the agricultural system means much more farmland put
> >under plow, and much more forest re-re-claimed for farmland, means
> >ecological devastation. It is farmland that destroys wildlife
> habitat.
> >VT and NH were once 90% farmland for only two things: a) to grow hay
> >for all the horses in New York City and Boston, and b) to grow sheep
> >for wool for keeping NYers and Beantowners warm in those cold cold
> >winters of the late 19th century when we were headed into an ice
> age.
> >
> >Today it is reversed: VT and NH are 90% forest, we have more
> wildlife
> >than before the europeans came here, and NY and Boston are not hip
> deep
> >in horseshit, disease, and stink.
> >
> >Insisting on agri-ethanol will push us back to a 19th century
> economy
> >and ecological devastation. Anyone who advocates it is a luddite who
> >knows not what they ask for.
> >
> >Besides all that, all the distillery mash will release much more
> >methane into the atmosphere. Scientists had thought methane was six
> >times more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2. A report just came
> out
> >that its actually 12 times more powerful.
> >
> >--- Robert Lindauer <robgobblin at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>A green point here:
> >>
> >>If everyone had their own ethanol still it wouldn't be half the
> >>problem 
> >>it is now - and there wouldn't be the polution problem either.
> >>
> >>Robbie
> >>
> >>
> >>Andrew Beck wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>If you were an insider and knew that oil was going to be worth
> that
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>much
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>in a few years, why would you be pumping for all you were worth
> and
> >>>>selling it today for $70/barrel?  That doesn't make sense.  It
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>would
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>be more profitable to reduce your pumping to the minimum
> necessary
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>to
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>cover expenses, and to keep it in the ground until the oil is far
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>more
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>valuable than it is today.
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>The thing about the peak oil debate is that it doesn't take the
> oil
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>to be nearly gone for it to shoot through the roof in price, just a
> >>small decline in oil supply will make the price go way up because
> of
> >>people's complete reliance on oil and refusal to comprimise their
> >>easy living.  Case in point in the 70s when the supply dropped 5%
> >>prices shot up 400%.  So all that will make the price of oil shoot
> up
> >>is when the supply slows down a bit.  The reserves should still be
> at
> >>least halfway full at that point, so now quanitity is good and
> won't
> >>comprimise the oil companies reserves when the supply is running
> out.
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Also I don't think anybody except oil execuatives are in a
> position
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>to say if they are storing a few wells for a rainy day.
> >>    
> >>
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> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
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> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >Mike Lorrey
> >Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
> >Founder, Constitution Park Foundation:
> >http://constitutionpark.blogspot.com
> >Personal/political blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >        
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> >  
> >
> 
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Mike Lorrey
Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
Founder, Constitution Park Foundation:
http://constitutionpark.blogspot.com
Personal/political blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com

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