[extropy-chat] Extropic (was: Extropy and libertarianism)

Mike Lorrey mlorrey at yahoo.com
Mon Sep 12 22:32:27 UTC 2005


--- Dirk Bruere <dirk.bruere at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9/12/05, The Avantguardian <avantguardian2020 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  
> > Well Dirk, if extropy is the opposite of entropy, then
> > suggesting there are other paths to transhumanity
> > other than the extropic path suggests there is an
> > entropic path to transhumanity. Can you envision one
> > and describe it.
> 
> 
> A Chinese National Socialist dictatorship dedicated to creating 
> Transhumanity.
> Will that do?
> Or is that still Extropic?
> 
> Extropic (in your definition) does not imply freedom, nor free
> markets, nor anything really if that is the only definition used.
> In fact, the opposite of Extropic then becomes Entropic - tending
> towards disorder. Hence the most Extropic (in your definition) form
> of govt is the collective dictatorship which provides the most order
> (ie the opposite of disorder).

This represents a poor understanding of both entropy and extropy. While
it is a common gutter definition that entropy is a measure of disorder,
more accurate definitions are:

a) the amount of energy in a closed thermodynamic system that is
unavailable to do work. Typically because it is degraded to an ultimate
ground state of inert uniformity.
b) the amount of information loss in communication.

Stating that extropy is the opposite of any of these is a bit off, as
well as a misunderstanding of the thermodynamic idea of disorder or
ground state.

Firstly your idea that a fascist/socialist tyranny would impose the
most order and is therefore the most extropic is both simplistic and
false because such a supposition would only be at least partly true if
all human beings were exactly alike. As they are not, the supposition
falls. Given the genetic, phsychological and intellectual diversity of
human beings (and other future intelligent entities), it is an
inescapable truth that a one-size fits all policy typical of
socialist/fascist tyranny, applied by force on such a diverse
population, would cause the most waste of energy and resources, and
therefore create the most entropy.

Secondly, given the tendency of humanity toward genetic and other
diversity, the proper systemic way to minimize entropy is to maximize
the number of solutions that each individual can choose to implement to
their own unique situations. Complexity is not entropy, it does not
cause entropy. Complexity generates spontaneous order in many unique
and unforseeable ways, and through those spontaneous structures of
order, makes maximum use of energy and resources and information.

The presumption of central planning is that one brain or subset of
brains can think more creatively and with more complexity than a
greater quantity of brains, that a monolithic mind can centrally plan
the work of all other minds than by allowing a chaotic system to create
spontaneous orders and temporary equilibria of maximum efficiency.
Information experts can clearly tell you that the closer you get to a
perfect simulation of a system, the closer you get to requiring the
same amount of processing that a natural system requires in reality,
but due to Heisenberg, will never perfectly simulate it. This obviously
leads to the logical conclusion that central planning of any kind
cannot work for a sufficiently large or complex population of unique
individuals.

This chain of reasoning explains why central planning works pretty well
for a group as small as a family, tribe or neighborhood, not as well
for a community, poorly for a region or state, and terribly for a whole
nation or planet. As Jonah Goldberg is quoted as saying, "This is why
I'm an anarchist internationally, a libertarian nationally, a
republican at the state level and a fascist in my community."

In the future, the degree of diversity and complexity in humanity,
genetically, psychologically, intellectually, and technologically, is
only going to expand exponentially. Those on the bleeding edge will
accelerate faster into the future than those further back in the wave.
Following the great extinction of natural species caused by
industrialization, there will be a response of an explosion of
diversity in human speciation in the coming centuries. 

For this reason, there will be less and less room for fascism/socialism
in the lives of the average person: such philosophies cannot continue
to provide solutions for people even at the local level. How can one
polity decide fairly such things as land and water use issues for
intelligent species of water dwellers, plant people, homo sapiens
ruminatus, cat people, human birds, rock people, nano people, space
people, and energy people? It can't. The only solution to such vast and
diverse conflicts of interest are open and free markets, to allow all
types of people to peacefully determine the best and fairest use of all
resources according to their needs and capabilities, thereby minimizing
entropy in the human social system deep into the future.

Mike Lorrey
Vice-Chair, 2nd District, Libertarian Party of NH
Founder, Constitution Park Foundation:
http://constitutionpark.blogspot.com
Personal/political blog: http://intlib.blogspot.com

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