[extropy-chat] Plz help!

Fri Aug 25 21:01:13 UTC 2006

Hello Rob, I am indeed talking about Premier and yes GoBack did install immediately with the program. The were no options for which parts may or may not be installed (you can see these afterwards but not before the install). I burned the iso image to a CD from the site link I provided, and booted from it. This was a removal tool that relieved the problem. Once I returned to Windows I had to go into Norton and remove GoBack from the options, which is permanent. To address your point number 2, while they are not the same, the incompatibility is due to the false partition generated by GoBack and my having a 5 raidcore processor (terabyte), I also have two separate processors on my system. GoBack will not work with a raidcore. They did confirm this with me on the phone. I don't want it to anyway so I'm glad to have it gone and have everything working normally.

My work station is not for browsing (the web or sending emails) like this the machine I am using to right now, I only use it to create art and animation. It is a BOXX workstation (which must run on Windows professional) http://www.boxxtech.com/applications/animation_systems.asp which is a professional animation system that allows me to work in a way that an average PC would absolutely choke on (and has in the past). You have probably watched a lot of movies that have used BOXX to generate special effects, broadcast work, make animations and compile movies. The reason why I wanted Norton on my workstation is for the recovery feature, when you are working with files in the number of thousands at one time (all the many frames of animation) it becomes much easier to lose one. If that happens, Norton will allow me to look a level past things that have already been emptied from the recycle bin and recover it. This can be a lifesaver and save an entire project. My programs do not run on anything other than windows, and I really am in love with my programs. I attended animation school to become certified in 3D Studio Max (which I did - and Combustion too), so it is a serious commitment.  While I understand your point, and perhaps under different conditions I would consider them and perhaps many should, but I am just not set up that way - I would probably have a physical reaction like get purple spots all over my body and melt into the floor if I could not create art and animation using my programs and my beloved BOXX.......... Gina

Gina "Nanogirl" Miller
Nanotechnology Industries
http://www.nanoindustries.com
Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com/index2.html
Animation Blog: http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/
Craft blog: http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/
Foresight Participating Member http://www.foresight.org
Nanotechnology Advisor Extropy Institute  http://www.extropy.org
3D/Animation http://www.nanogirl.com/museumfuture/index.htm
Microscope Jewelry http://www.nanogirl.com/crafts/microjewelry.htm
Email: nanogirl at halcyon.com
"Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future."

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Bradbury 
  To: ExI chat list 
  Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 12:15 PM
  Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Plz help!

  On 8/24/06, Gina Miller <nanogirl at halcyon.com> wrote:

    Scratch that, I called Norton, they referred me here: http://service1.symantec.com/support/goback.nsf/docid/2005111514174058?Open&src=w
    apparently Go Back is not compatible with raidcore.........all good now! Gina

  Gina, I hate to say it and I hope you will not mind me using you as an example, but "All is *not* good".

  I presume you are talking about "Norton Systemworks Premier" [1].  As the Norton page says "GoBack" is included with the package.  Packages typically install everything unless you select the "expert" option in which case they "may" allow you not to install the parts you don't want.  Now Norton is probably reliabile enough to allow you paths to get out of the swamp when you fall into it (as you seem to have). 

  The details of your message seem to suggest that you are on the cutting edge enough to get into real trouble.  You are installing closed source system backup and scanning software from a 3rd party onto a system which already has closed source software from multiple vendors (Microsoft & whomever is supplying the "raid" system  it sounds like you are using) [2].

  Now, lets start with the first problem -- Why do you need Norton Systemworks in the first place?  Are you running around the Internet in such a "naked" condition that viruses are infecting you left and right (I would hope that ExI list subscribers know better than that).

  The second problem is -- Why are you still using Windows?  Are you absolutely *sure* that the software you require or its equivalent is not available under Linux?  Even if its not there are several virtual/emulator approaches (Wine, Parallels, Xen, VMware, etc.) which would allow you to run Windows in a sandbox where it or the nasties it tends to promote in the world should be unable to do undo harm to your basic system. [3]

  Linux is *free* (and will remain that way forever and ever).  It is also open source and so you can receive critical patches as soon as anyone in the world makes them available -- not when some committee in Redmond (in conjuction with its marketing people and lawyers) decide it is "safe" to release them.  The people promoting Linux aren't running around trying to get legislatures to pass laws, or distributing software without telling people about its capabilities, that allows them to scan all of the information on you hard drive.  Linux comes with virus scanning software (free!) if you really need it (in 32 years of using Unix/Linux I've never needed virus "disinfection" for those systems -- in the decade or so that I used Windows I was careless and may have been infected a couple of times -- but I still cleaned up the problems myself without the need for a "helping" hand.)  While Linux used to be somewhat difficult to install that is no longer the case [4]

  So, I'll stand on the crate in front of the audience and point out very loudly -- if you aren't part of the solution -- you are part of the problem!

  Now, why is this important?  Because the infection of machines that easily enable more infections (i.e. all of those old unupgraded, unprotected, closed source machines) are what allows SPAM to consume an increasing fraction of Internet bandwidth and enables malicious attacks (possibly supported by governments(!)) to take place [5].  Now some of you may be saying, "Oh, I've got this great firewall software installed (e.g. from Microsoft, Norton, McaAfee, etc.) that protects me from all that badness out there on the evil Internet."  Sorry [6]!

  I will note that whether you are running Windows *or* Linux, that because the current Web interface that most people use involves a browser (IE, Firefox, etc.) if you don't have Javascript disabled you are creating the *wide open door* that those Internet nasties can sneak through.  Javascript potentially enables a foreign program from any web site you visit  to run on your computer!  Not a program you explicitly wanted to run (as was the case with those "free" software utilities that people naively downloaded and ran when the WWW was still a relatively safe place to play) but programs that you don't even see.  If said programs are clever enough they may sit, quietly... waiting... until your birthday next year when they will spring to life and demand at least 3, maybe 4 figures from you being sent by Western Union to a pickup point in Nigeria before they will turn over the password required to decrypt your hard drive. (You don't really expect the password to work do you?).   As is pointed out in [7] by Stefan Wolf,

  "The primary gateway into the browser is JavaScript," Wolf explains. Users should deactivate the program language in their browser, or use browser extensions to define which web sites are to be trusted to execute JavaScript."

  Of course it would be nice if you could be sure that certain sites can be "trusted" and could not be compromised, for example government or military sites, but as [8,9,10,11,12,...] point out -- that is probably an example of playing Russian Roulette.

  Your choice, use whatever software you want.  But as the Folding at Home team is pointing out [13] their recent efforts are devoted to pushing the computing capacity at their disposal to 1-10 petaflops.  That *is* human brain equivalent capacity.

  Some of you should be having nightmares where you wake up in a cold sweat wondering if that money that you just wired to Nigeria is going to allow the RogueAI to buy even more computing capacity that will subsequently be used to enslave you even further.

  Robert

  1.  http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/overview.jsp?pcid=sp&pvid=nswp2006
  2. Though I'm unfamiliar with these packages ("raid core" and GoBack), "Raid" is a *completely* different concept with completely different implementation details from what I suspect "Go Back" would be (a low level file version control system).   The two concepts do not perform the same function at all.
  3. I personally have used Windows 2000 under Parallels under Linux.  It works quite well and seems to provide a very good protection for my normal system.  You need enough disk space and system memory to use this approach (as is the case with Xen or VMware) but most "modern" systems should allow one to operate this way.
  4. The Ubuntu version of Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/) is very user friendly.
  5. "Tibetan Wi-Fi Website Attacked", Wired (17 Aug 2006).
  http://www.wired.com/news/technology/internet/0,71617-0.html
   6. "Personal Firewalls Mostly Useless, Says Mail & Guardian"
  http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/24/136257
  7. "Why home firewall software is a leaky dike"
  http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=275381&area=/insight/insight_tech/
  8. Google: "site hacked" gives over 3 million results.
  9. Rhode Island:
  http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,108199,00.html
  10. Virgina:
  http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NEW/is_2001_June_11/ai_75497725
  11. Malaysia:
  http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NEW/is_2001_Jan_4/ai_68738874
  12.  U.S. Army:
  http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_zdext/is_200207/ai_ziff29295
  13. "PS3 Client for Folding at Home Debuts, ATI GPU Version Soon"
  http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/24/129244

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