[extropy-chat] Whats Raels position on the first cell ? was

[Robert Bradbury]

On 2/13/06, Mehran <mehranraeli at comcast.net> wrote:

> The full answer is of course in the book, but in short: there is no first
> cell...


Of course, since the answers are "in the book" (or books) then this is a
declared authority.  I.e. it is true because *I* say (or in this case Rael
says) it is true.  You must have *faith* and *believe* that it is true.  No
hypothesis generation and testing is required.


> Universe is infinite, it is infinite in time and it is infinite in space,
>
there is no beginning and there is no end,
> Universe always existed and will always exist and most interesting of all
> and to answer your question more directly, life always existed in the
> universe as well...humans always existed in the universe as well, we just
> progress scientifically then we go to other planets and create new life
> forms and new civilizations like an intergalactic virus in the universe,


Yea, yea, yea.  This is a repackaging of
Hoyle's<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle> Steady
State <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state_theory>,
subsequently, Quasi-Steady
State <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-steady_state_cosmology>,
hypotheses updated with the
Hoyle/Wickramasinghe<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandra_Wickramasinghe><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandra_Wickramasinghe>
panspermia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia> hypothesis
[1,2,3,4,5].  These have largely been rejected by modern science with the
possible exception that there is some merit to the idea that various organic
molecules necessary for life may have arrived via cosmic dust and/or comet
to contributed to the pea soup that yielded "life".  But that doesn't answer
Brett's question as to how the first cell was formed.  For that one place to
start might be Dyson's work [6,7] on the problem.  Wikipedia has further
discussions under the origin of
life<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Life>[8].

So Rael would seem to have no claim on this system.  If anything these
people should be calling themselve's "Hoyleians"!

our creators were created the same way, all the way back to an infinity in
> the
> past with no beginning ever...NASA has similar projects to go and implant
> life on other planets and so there we go contributing our share in the
> cycle
>
> I remember how I felt when I first read about this, so enjoy the ride! ...
>
> there are more amazing details in the book, more extropic than anything I
> know..


Actually, the Extropic Principles have as a fundamental component "rational
thought" and once you cross the border from physics we know into declarative
physics where the reality is determined by "faith" and "belief" -- then you
are *NOT* being extropic (and I personally will request that you please stop
wasting my time).  Given that I have a problem with the "big bang" creating
a universe from nothingness -- I have just as much of a problem with the
universe having existed forever.

Since there seems to be no way currently of proving or disproving the
foundations of a "Raelian" philosophical system I put it into the same camp
as I do any other system which requires that one accept things on the basis
of someone elses assertions.

I would like however to know Rael's opinions as to precisely what happens
when humanity evolves to the point of hitting the limits imposed by the laws
of physics in this "always has existed" Universe?  I.e. what do advanced
civilizations do once they hit the limits of intelligence that say Jupiter
Brain or Matrioshka Brain architectures impose?  And what happens after the
heat death of this Universe?  [If I'm reading the previous statements
correctly, there is an assertion that there is "no end" to the universe.
This is in direct conflict with theories regarding heat death and requires
actual proof of a "steady state" cosmology to be valid.]

Robert

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state_theory
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-steady_state_cosmology
4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandra_Wickramasinghe
5. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson
7. Dyson, F. J., "A Model for the Origin of
Life<http://www.aeiveos.com:8080/%7Ebradbury/ETI/Authors/Dyson-FJ/AmftOoL.html>",
Journal of Molecular Evolution *18*:344-350 (1982).
8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Life
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