[extropy-chat] He's not a troll he may just be ill... and I'm afraid this is a rant.

Tue Feb 14 20:25:46 UTC 2006

Thank you Natasha, It took me a long time to work up the courage to say
something.  I’d written quite a response to Robert, before I noticed your
post.  I don’t have the heart to delete it, my manic ego I guess.  I hope
it, at the very least, is amusing.

Spike and Robert,

Thank you very much for acknowledging me, I am honestly flattered that you
guys gave me a nod as I have no PhD, am unpublished and hardly know a bucky
ball from a basket ball.  Robert, your work has been a great inspiration.

That said I agree with you both and would be happy to talk rationally about
alien life in and around the universe as long as Arthur C. Clarke remains
above the line below which we can call science fantasy.  

But with all humility, let me caution you Robert regarding Mehan. You are a
powerful man toying with a potentially sick individual.  Do not encourage
his or her fantasy.  What you consider rational discourse with a reasoning
human being about semi rational “Raelian perspectives” is most likely a one
way chat between you and someone in the throws of a manic episode.  I can
diagnose clinical mania in short order as it almost always involves supreme
beings and a feeling of connectedness to an infinite something or another.  

Oh dear, I’m afraid that this is going to be a long post and perhaps a manic
rant.  I hope it doesn’t get me blocked.

I’m going to break this up into several short “essays” to give enough back
story to “prove” my diagnosis of Mehan and share my credentials for making
such a diagnosis.

Take this next paragraph as the proper way to handle a Close Encounter of
Whatever Kind and as insight into how my mind functions.

If a ship landed in my yard and LGM’s stepped out I’d push past their
literature and try to find the cable that dropped the saucer on my roses.
Lack of a cable or any significant burning to the flowers, I’d then grab a
hammer and start knocking about in the ship till I was convinced that
nothing said “Intel Inside.”  Then when I discovered a “Flux Capacitor” type
thing I would finally stop and say, “Hey, cool gadget!”  Assuming the
universal benevolence of the LGM’s, I’d yank it out and demand from the
nearest “Grey” (they are the tall nice ones), “where the hell did this come
from?”  Grey’s don’t talk, they communicate via telepathy, so I’d ignore the
voice inside my head.  Then stepping outside the saucer and sitting in a
lawn chair I’d throw pebbles at the Aliens till I was sure they were solid.
Then I’d look down at the “Flux Capacitor”  and make sure it hadn’t morphed
into my bird feeder.  Finally, with proof in my hand and aliens sitting on
my deck (they’d be offered beers, though I’ve heard that they absorb energy
like a plant) I’d grab my cell phone and tell my doctor that I’m having a
serious manic episode with full blown visual hallucinations.  Only, until
he, Dr. Sugg,  drove out of Manhattan and sat in the back yard with me (and
Them)  and only after he, Dr. Sugg,  agreed that something “normal” was
going on, would I even think of calling a press conference, much less post
to this list.  

So the first step with Mehan is to have his guru, Rael, go through 10 years
of psychotherapy and take whatever drugs are prescribed to him.  Then only
if Rael’s doctor says that Rael is OK, would I even consider trying to have
a rational “chat” with Mehan.  However, just your single discourse with
Mehan has led me to believe that Mehan is not OK.

All humor aside, I’m quite serious; it is not nice to play with the mentally
ill.  Gentlemen, you have been discussing actual space travel with Pluto
probes and nanotubules.  99% of the population would think you are talking
about science fiction.  You both obviously function on the extreme leading
edge of humanity’s ability to reason.  You may or may not consider me
capable of rational discourse.   If you do think that I am rational then we
can discuss how to diagnose mental illness and then what the ethics are when
dealing with the mentally ill.  However, I have been in Mehan’s position and
been irrational when talking with powerful and intelligent people.  Let me
tell you, when I got my rational capabilities back I was very embarrassed
about the things I said.  I wished that I had not been humored.

I’ve been blessed with high reasoning facilities, proven by IQ scores and
the like. And I have honed my rational skills, proven by advanced degrees
and by very smart people calling me smart.  Unfortunately, I have been
cursed with a disease.  I am bi-polar 1, require massive amounts of
medication to stay rational, and have been hospitalized once for merely
lowering the dose of one of my drugs, Depakote, prescribed for anti-mania.

More back story as to why Mehan should be helped and not humored.

The first movie I ever saw in a theatre was 2001 space odyssey, then I read
Clarke’s book. I devoured science literature and science fiction till people
were sure that I was going to be a prodigal scientist.  Unfortunately, as a
teenager, I was abducted by Aliens.  You know the ones
 they were depicted
in Close Encounters, the little short guys and the taller fellows
 I saw
that movie as a pre-teen.  Some very serious sounding literature by the
author, Budd Hopkins, reaffirmed my abduction story.  Eventually, the
Harvard professor and shrink, John Mack, claimed that several of his
patients had been abducted and he wrote quite a bit about his “proof.”
Oddly, the guy who got the most “fame” from the 1980’s to early 1990’s
“abduction scenario” stories was the noted horror author, Whitley Strieber.
His Communion book was a best seller.  I’ll never forget Strieber on Johnny
Carson.  Some very powerful people were creating some very powerful memes.

Robert, Mehan is reading this chat list and every time you address him on an
equal rational plane all you are doing is reinforcing some very destructive
memes that have infected his unhealthy mind.  What gives me the ability to
judge an unhealthy mind?

Starting in 1992, I was literally losing my mind. That same year, Budd
Hopkins, with his fame and his healthy, semi rational mind,  hypnotized me
and declared me an abductee.  That certainly didn’t help me move back toward
sanity.  Somehow I managed to graduate from NYU with high honors, but as I
entered my 20’s my moods would swing violently and I had horrible “abduction
dreams.”  Finally, Steven Smith, a very rational writing professor in my
masters program sent me to a Dr. Clark Sugg and within just a few short
sessions he declared me Bi-polar and prescribed Prozac and Lithium.  The
dreams stopped immediately and I fell out of a mild manic state into a wide
mood range between depression and hypomania.  Over the years new drugs were
developed and my moods have become managed to within a narrow band where I
feel normal anxiety and sadness and joy and for the first time in my 37
years, love
 not hypersexuality.

Robert, do not be a Budd Hopkins to Mehan.  Instead, be a Steven Smith and
advise him to seek help.  Hopkins didn’t notice that he was dealing with a
faulty mind, Smith did and he literally saved my life.  Obviously Mehan
respects you, so do your best to get him help.

Some more evidence to support my claim that Mehan is manic. According to
UFOLOGISTS, “1 out of every 100 humans has had an abduction experience;”
According to doctors, “1 out of every 100 humans is bi-polar.”  Until
someone has experienced mania for themselves they are unable to understand
what a conversation with someone experiencing a manic episode is like.  Even
my doctor gets fooled and he marvels at the lucidity, charisma and
quasi-rationality of the hypomanic mind right before it goes into a full
blown manic episode and can then be declared insane.

Robert,  whoever this fellow is that you are communicating with, you have to
realize that you are not dealing with a rational mind, that this may be
someone who has a brain disease that could be treated.  Just look at
Mehran’s communication:

The full answer is of course in the book, but in short: there is no first
cell...

Universe is infinite, it is infinite in time and it is infinite in space,
there is no beginning and there is no end, Universe always existed and will
always exist and most interesting of all and to answer your question more
directly, life always existed in the universe as well...humans always
existed in the universe as well, we just progress scientifically then we go
to other planets and create new life forms and new civilizations like an
intergalactic virus in the universe, our creators were created the same way,
all the way back to an infinity in the past with no beginning ever...NASA
has similar projects to go and implant life on other planets and so there we
go contributing our share in the cycle

I remember how I felt when I first read about this, so enjoy the ride! .. 

there are more amazing details in the book, more extropic than anything I

know..

LOVE

Mehran

Mehran is charming, kind, full of love and good nature.  Mehran is also
hypomanic.
http://counsellingresource.com/distress/mood-disorders/hypomanic-symptomsht
ml  One of the best ways to diagnose someone entering or in hypomania is
that they talk incessantly and breathlessly.  Just read Mehran’s words out
loud paying careful attention to the punctuation.  Notice all the
grandiosity.  

I am trying to help Mehran and I have tried to be humble with this discourse
though it is a field that I am an expert in.  Hope I haven’t alienated
anyone ;)

pete

  _____  

From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bradbury
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:43 AM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Please don't feed the trolls!

On 2/14/06, Peter K.  Bertine, Jr <pkbertine at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you BillK !
> 
> New to the list, I was wondering how far the discussion was going to go 
> before someone stepped in and "moderated."
> 
> Until someone introduces an alien to NASA for a debriefing I don't want to
hear another word on the subject.
> 

Peter, until someone comes up with a *really* good explanation for the
"missing mass" you have to admit that our current picture of reality is
quite incomplete.  There is a *very* legitimate argument based on
Lineweaver's work that ~70% of the Earth's in our galaxy are *older* than
ours -- some by billions of years.  I don't have any axe to grind with
regard to whether our specific solar system (or we in it) might or might not
have been created by aliens.  I can make quite valid arguments for (1) why
more advanced civilizations than our probably exist; (2) why they might not
be "here" (the Fermi Paradox) because they migrate to the coldest parts of
the galaxy [1]; and potentially (3) why they might want to create and/or
influence the development of solar systems and/or life within them as
inexpensive sources of experimental information. 

My message earlier this morning pointed out the scientific underpinnings of
Raelian perspectives.  The debate regarding those underpinnings is *still*
ongoing -- though I will admit that right now the "Big Bang"ers have
significantly greater throw weight relative to the "Steady State"ers.  I do
not feel that discussions related to that debate should be off-list topics
because they relate, in part, to "What are the limits of extropic
capabilities?".  As Question #6 in the Matrioshka Brain Paper [2], now
almost a decade old, asked " What do Matrioshka Brains 'think' about?"  An
immediate follow on to that question is "How do they go about optimizing
such thoughts?"  One perfectly legitimate way is to play "god" with solar
systems. 

If you believe that advanced civilizations cannot play "god" with solar
systems then I would like to see some very carefully reasoned arguments as
to precisely why that is the case.

When discussions cross over into the land of "believe me because I say it is
true" that is when the moderators may want to take action (IMO). 

Robert

1. Cirkovic, Milan M.; Bradbury, Robert J.,
"Galactic Gradients, Postbiological Evolution and the Apparent Failure of
SETI"
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/
<http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2005astro.ph..6110C
> cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2
<http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2005astro.ph..6110C
>
<http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2005astro.ph..6110C
>  005astro.ph..6110C
2.
http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/MatrioshkaBrainsPaper.html
<http://www.aeiveos.com/%7Ebradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/MatrioshkaBrainsPaper.h
tml> 

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