[extropy-chat] META: ExI List Quality & Future

[Giu1i0 Pri5c0]

Natasha, pleeeeease! Nooooooo! Don't do this! This is the wrong way to go!!!
OK listen on:
This looks like trying to go back to the "Good Old Heroic Times" of
this list. But it would be like trying to recapture the taste of your
first kiss. Unfortunately, your first kiss is gone. Past. No other
kiss will taste like that, ever. But there will be other kisses, good
in their own right. Perhaps, in some sense, better.
I have been on this list since 1998 or 1999, I was just lurking for
the first couple of years and then started posting. At that time there
was much less diversity on the list. For me, it was terribly
interesting because reading the list was a total immersion in a
well-defined worldview that I had not been previously exposed to - at
least not in a systematic fashion. But as you say, at that time there
were not so meny of us on the net. Now we have a much larger community
on the net, very diverse in terms of geography, education and
lifestyle and, listen to me, *this is good*.
I value the diversity on this list, and even the occasional passionate debate.
If this list is transformed into an invitation-only list, I am afraid
it will soon degenerate in a small group of people who preach to the
converted. Not very effective for spreading our worldview.
We want immortality, uploading, merging flesh with sand, freedom (yes
I am a leftwinger and I want freedom, I may have occasionally tried to
explain what I mean), endless discovery and exploration, and leaving
many old things behind. But I don't want to want what I want like an
ostrich who stick his head in the sand because it is afraid to see the
world. I want to continue wanting what I want *after* having heard,
and considered, other points of view, sometimes defending the old
things we wish to leave behind. Perhaps we can learn a couple of
things that we can integrate in our own worldview..
If you wish to create something like a focused working group, fine, I
think it would be a very good initiative. But please, *besides* and
not *instead of* the public list.
G.

On 2/19/06, Natasha Vita-More <natasha at natasha.cc> wrote:
> "… a wide-open forum is a relic of the Cretaceous period of the Internet.
> The size of the net has probably grown by 8 or 9 orders of magnitude
> since the Early Days when the list was open.  I'm grateful it was back then,
> but it's time to change."    Greg Burch, 2006
>
> _________________
>
> "I say: the List is dead! Long live the list!"  Max More, 2006
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> Before you read any further, I would like you to know that ExI's 2006 formal
> Strategic Plan, which is being formatted for public viewing, indicates that
> ExI is currently undergoing a transformational change.  One of the
> initiatives of the Plan is restructuring and modernizing its email list.
> The Strategic Plan is not public yet, and the initiatives are scheduled for
> implementing after March 1, 2006, although I believe we can expedite this
> initiative sooner.
>
> Please read on …
>
> The following are my thoughts about the current state of the email list:  It
> is evident that list members cannot or will not actively manage the list as
> they once did. This could be because of the list volume,  I'm not sure.
>
> Years ago, list members did not want to be controlled. They carried on
> high-level discussions and, every now and then someone would cause a
> conflict, and the list would work though problems.   The list was a virtual
> team of extropians who thought about the future and their unified worldview.
>  Newcomers to the list were scrutinized and, eventually, welcomed into the
> forum.
>
> Then extropians were criticized for being an "elitist" group and one had to
> be highly intelligent, enormously creative, and exceptionally knowledgeable
> about science and technology to fit in.  As the years passed and the ideas
> became more widely known, the list maintained its dignity and also welcomed
> more diversity and input from different disciplines.
>
> There were several very difficult times when the list was unbalanced,
> attracting dogmatic posters on religion and politics.  It angered some list
> members and they left for a while, started their own lists, but eventually
> came back because they found something of value on ExI's list.  That
> something is a sense of quality, depth, reasoning, dignity.  List members
> expected quality and they usually got it.
>
> There have been ups and downs and time and time again, because the list is
> an open forum a few soapbox posters demanded that their point of view was
> right.  Then there were trolls who came onto the list to cause havoc.
> Weeding out these posters with skill and tact, while at the same time
> valuing a non-censored sentiment and uncontrolled list environment, has been
> the job of list moderators.
>
> Balancing these elements is not easy.  And for the posters, confidence
> wanes, conflict arises and discontent prevails, until a transformation
> occurs.
>
> But transformation does not come easy. Conflict tends to shift focus away
> from the basic goals of the list posters, reducing productivity and the
> bottom line of "list quality."  Surveys show that list moderators and
> managers spend about 20 to 50 percent (could be more) of their time on
> conflict resolution. And as a result, the list owners, such as ExI, have
> increased house cleaning tasks to empower list posters to move beyond the
> conflict.  This repeated loop reinforces confusion and distrust of list
> quality and makes the list more vulnerable to problems, annoyances and
> distrust than ever.
>
> As the Internet grows, posters are "supposed" to continue to be
> self-directed, contribute their opinions, and communicate with a greater
> number of list members. List posters have to be focused on avoiding,
> accommodating, competing, compromising, and collaborating with other list
> members.  By this, the individual list posters need to be ready, at an
> instant's notice, to access to their own conflict management skills.
>
> This is asking a lot of list posters who are on the list to communicate -
> not manage.  Over time this reinforcing cycle breaks down the foundations of
> the environment, the extropy list, and the only choice is to terminate the
> list or transform it into something new.
>
> Greg Burch commented yesterday that "a wide-open forum is a relic of the
> Cretaceous period of the Internet.  The size of the net has probably grown
> by 8 or 9 orders of magnitude since the Early Days when the list was open.
> I'm grateful it was back then, but it's time to change."
>
> Max More said today: "When the Extropians e-mail list began 15 years ago --
> an eon in Internet time -- posters were intensely enthusiastic people who
> clearly shared a core set of values and goals. Few people outside the list
> had the necessary information or inclination to participate. Years passed.
> Some time ago, we changed the name of the list to "Extropy-Chat" to reflect
> the much looser collection of posters and content.
>
> "Now is the time to change the list again. Many other e-mail lists now exist
> where people can chat about any topic imaginable. Extropy Institute and its
> principals have moved on to more focused, solutions-oriented, practical
> thinking. A chat list fits poorly with that shift.
>
> "It is time to terminate this list, or radically transform it, depending on
> how you look at it. I favor an invitation-only list so as to maximize the
> quality of postings. If feasible, read-only status will also be an option. I
> say: the List is dead! Long live the list!"
>
> I look forward to seeing you in the future!
>
> Natasha
>
> The best defense is ProAction!