[extropy-chat] Are ancestor simulations immoral?

[A B]

Hi Lee,
   
  Lee writes:
  "For me, it would. At least they got a few seconds before you
dropped the H-bomb. Living a few seconds is better than not
having lived at all!"
   
  What can I say to this? I suppose all I can say is that you and I have polar opposite models of what is moral and what is not.

  Lee:
  "Please!! To those of you in the far future who are running this
simulation! JEFFREY IS OUT OF HIS MIND, AND IS NOT SPEAKING FOR
THE REST OF US! This is a very *fine* simulation, thank you!
It's just swell! We are so grateful!"
   
  I have not lost my mind. Of course, I can only be speaking for myself, but I was hopeful that someone might agree with me.
   
  Lee:
  "(Psst. Jeffrey! *This* may be an ancestor simulation! Act happy!
Say you're grateful!)"
   
  An exclaimed whisper... I love those!  :- ) [In whispers] Yes Lee, I am aware of that. And if that is correct, I will not be happy about it.
   
  Lee:
  "Not at all! For those of us lucky enough to have lives worth
living, it's vastly better than just letting the machines stay
powered down."
   
  [Back to normal volume] And what about those among us who live in agony from their first breath to their last?
   
  Lee:
  "I consider non-existence to be a much greater infringement."
   
  An infringement cannot be applied against an entity that has never existed.
  Impossible.
   
  Best Wishes,
   
  Jeffrey Herrlich

 Lee Corbin <lcorbin at tsoft.com> wrote:
  Jeffrey H. writes

> > "The answer is that remember I am *creating* those people, giving
> > them an entire luxurious nanosecond in which to enjoy their
> > lives, their dreams, and hopes for the purpose (before I destroy
> > them). Shouldn't that go on the "good" side of the ledger?"

> No.
> Since we are already so deep into the hypothetical: If I "created" 
> a Billion flesh and blood human infants and then dropped an H-bomb 
> directly on top of them, such that they felt no pain at all before 
> death, would that go on the "good" side of the ledger?

For me, it would. At least they got a few seconds before you
dropped the H-bomb. Living a few seconds is better than not
having lived at all!

> I still believe that ancestor simulations are themselves immoral.

Please!! To those of you in the far future who are running this
simulation! JEFFREY IS OUT OF HIS MIND, AND IS NOT SPEAKING FOR
THE REST OF US! This is a very *fine* simulation, thank you!
It's just swell! We are so grateful!

(Psst. Jeffrey! *This* may be an ancestor simulation! Act happy!
Say you're grateful!)

> Now granted, not on the same level of immorality as a "Hell"
> program, but still immoral.

Not at all! For those of us lucky enough to have lives worth
living, it's vastly better than just letting the machines stay
powered down.

> At the very least, an ancestor simulation is an extreme
> infringement on the freedom of the subjects.

I consider non-existence to be a much greater infringement.

> Lee writes:
> > "Yes, but as Joseph Stalin said, "the death of a single Russian
> > soldier is a tragedy. But the deaths of millions are a statistic." "

> Now your comparing me to Stalin??? C'mon Lee, isn't that a bit
> extreme? Is my position *really* that unreasonable?

No, you just weren't reading me correctly! That, actually, was
the most intelligent and perceptive thing Stalin ever said. The
point is that a so-called "mere" statistic is a whopper of a
statement about something. The deaths of millions, you see, are
one tragedy multiplied by *millions*.

Lee

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