[extropy-chat] Rational thinking

[Chris Hibbert]

Jef Allbright wrote:
> A key difference between the sacrifices of the founding fathers and 
> those of the kamikaze pilots was that the founding fathers were
> taking action on behalf of a wide sphere of self-identity to promote
> their values into the significant future, while the kamikaze pilots
> were acting within the narrow sphere of individual identity in fear
> of societal pressure and dire consequences in the very near term.
> (Note that the question asked about the rationality of the pilots,
> and not of their commanders. Note also that we have not addressed
> factors of pride or patriotism which have little overlap with the
> domain of individual rational decision-making.)

This seems to be uncharitable to the motivations of the Japanese pilots, 
and I can't tell whether the intent is to include all uniformed 
soldiers, all those acting in the moment, or only conscripts.

I won't try to argue that those pilots were acting rightly, or that they 
were fighting on behalf of a noble cause, but to say that they were 
irrational because their immediate motivations were due to training and 
group pressure doesn't give any credit to their feelings of patriotism 
and their desire to support a large cause.

When phrased that way, all soldiers in combat act for those motivations, 
but surely some of them have decided to  place themselves in that 
position.  That was what the founders of the US were doing when they 
made the aforementioned pledge.  Once having done so, they each often 
found themselves pressured by the force of later events and earlier 
commitments.  But you give them credit for the noble motivations behind 
the earlier pledge, rather than the situations the pledge let them into.

Would you like to draw a finer or a different distinction?  How do you 
want to characterize the actions of an American in uniform, who 
voluntarily enlists, and later finds him or herself in a battlefield 
situation, falling on a grenade to save fellow soldiers?  Or soldiers in 
earlier wars who made attacks against daunting odds in service of a 
cause they chose to defend?

Chris
-- 
Currently reading:      Marc Bekoff, The Cognitive Animal;
     Hahn and Tetlock: Information Markets; Robert T. Kiyosaki,
	Rich Dad's Guide to Investing; David D. Friedman: Harald

Chris Hibbert
hibbert at mydruthers.com
Blog:   http://pancrit.org