[extropy-chat] Uses of Religion
fauxever at sprynet.com
Tue Oct 3 03:01:13 UTC 2006
From: "Lee Corbin" <lcorbin at rawbw.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:48 PM
> Olga writes the difference between Saddam killing Iraqis and Iraqi's
> killing Iraqies.
>> Saddam's hands. Now it is on George Bush's hands
> Why is it so important whose blood is on whose hands? That is, if we are
> interested in less suffering, everything else being equal we should
> applaud actions that reduce casualties. (Yes---I know that not everything
> else is equal.)
Doesn't integrity count for something? And isn't a good reputation
important? How can the USA hope to hold on to any respect it may have with
other countries in the world - unless it acts honorably?
The importance is that before the war in Iraq Saddam was considered the "bad
guy." Now - by many more people in many more countries than before the war
in Iraq - the USA is considered the "bad guy." It is not clear that the
Iraqi war will show a reduction in casualties - the conflict seems far from
over, and who knows over how many borders the blood will keep spilling?
The USA went to "free" the Iraqis ... but ended up "freeing" a lot of Iraqis
from ... their lives.
> It reminds me of the chain of reasoning pacifists use. They are
> disturbed, yes, by killings, but it's whether or not their own hands are
> clean that is to them what's crucial.
I don't think you'll find all that much agreement among pacifists, and there
are degrees of pacifism even among so-called pacifists.
>> Another important difference is that the reputation of the USA has sunk
>> to a very low level (Abu Ghraib:
> Please find me a major conflict without incidents of this kind (or,
> usually, much worse) any time in human history. Even when sociopaths are
> not drawn into armies and police forces---and it's estimated that about
> four percent of people are sociopaths---wars invariably coarsen all
If that's the problem, then that scenario would have needed to be placated
in advance - call it a "defensive strategy."
Because the bottom line is ... the USA cannot lead by example if we are not
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