[extropy-chat] META: "Killthread": Is it censorship or sensible?

Tue May 1 01:41:02 UTC 2007

Hi Natasha,

I hope you enjoyed your stay in Montreal and that
people where hospitable.

I am curious to know why Brett didn't politely, on
list, ask Eugen why he thought that the thread should
be killed?

Thanks 
Anna:)

--- Natasha Vita-More <natasha at natasha.cc> wrote:

> It was called to my attention that there have been
> some problems on the 
> list.  Since I am not a moderator I have not
> followed the thread on this 
> and since I have been travelling for several weeks,
> I did not know there 
> was a problem. But because we share this list as a
> venue to discuss and 
> challenge ideas, I think that we all need to take a
> look at this:
> 
> 
> From: Eugen Leitl 
>
<<http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat>eugen
> at 
> leitl.org>
> 
>  >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:53:25PM +1000, Brett
> Paatsch wrote:
>  > >John Grigg wrote:
>  > >
>  > > Attempting to impeach the current president is
> not a realistic plan
>  > >
>  > > Why would you think that?
>  >
>  > Folks, killthread. This is completely off-topic
> for the list.
> 
> Brett responded:
> 
> 
> "Eugen, just so you and I are absolutely clear. If
> you kill this thread, or 
> call for it to be killed again. If your are that
> censorious, I will 
> remember it and hold it against you whilst you and I
> live. I would oppose 
> your reanimation. I will regard you as in the
> aggregate an entropic vector.
> 
> 
> I am willing to be censored off the list, it is a
> private list after all, 
> but actions (like censorship) are facts that shape
> reactions. Being a 
> person in a world of persons, I take things
> personally. Fair warning.
> 
> 
> If I am censored off the list I would take that as
> diagnostic of the
> 
> degeneration of the list.  It is one thing to take
> issue with a persons
> 
> arguments and say so. It is another to stop other
> people from hearing
> 
> those arguments and expressing their reactions which
> may include
> 
> opposition to them. I regard censorship as a form of
> killing - as do
> 
> you by the use of your word killthread.
> 
> 
> You are yourself a transient information thread that
> the universe
> 
> has yet to rule on."
> 
> Like Brett I do not like being censored.  But there
> is a difference between 
> being censored and being sensible.  The extropy list
> does have rules and 
> guidelines and list members are required to follow
> them in order to post on 
> this list.  Whether or not Brett's thread is on
> topic for this list is one 
> issue at stake.  Now, there are many variables
> involved that can add one 
> way or another such as a post may be a topic the
> list members want to 
> engage in but it is not a transhumanist topic per
> se.  Or, it can be a 
> topic that is curious for list members but the way
> in which it is presented 
> to the list, or the language used or implications of
> the meaning of the 
> posts can cause a moderator to request that the
> thread be put to 
> rest.  These variables are important to pay
> attention to.
> 
> Further, and not totally unrelated, I was censored
> from the Cryonics list 
> when I was being an activist to help a fellow
> cryonicist.  Now this was 
> truly strange and frankly made me think much less of
> cryonicists than I had 
> prior.  But I also understood that it touched a
> nerve with other list 
> members and I did not take it personally, retaliate,
> or blame them.  I 
> belive that I was in the wrong for not paying
> attention to the feelings of 
> other list members.  I was too busy to read
> responses, and that was also my 
> mistake.  I was so driven to do something worthwhile
> that it backfired on me.
> 
> I see what you (Brett) are doing as something
> different but sharing some 
> similarities.  You posted on a topic that you are
> passionate about.  The 
> difference with you and me is that you are blaming
> and making accusations 
> and insulting list members.  I would not do this
> because even if people do 
> not agree with me, I do my best to accept the
> differences.  You are also 
> different than me in the way you handled this. 
> Instead of approaching the 
> topic from a constructive inclusive manner, you made
> assumptions and 
> accusations.  This never sits well with list
> members.
> 
> And, finally, I do not like is the content of your
> (Brett) response to the 
> list moderator (Eugene) requesting that the thread
> be killed.  You made a 
> threat and does not sit well with me and I'm sure
> others.  But putting that 
> aside, what do other list members think of this
> thread?
> 
> Lastly, I do think this is a topic that warrants
> objective examination and 
> search for resolution.  I invite you to think about
> this.
> 
> In hopes of resolution rather than slamming doors,
> 
> Natasha
> 
> 
> <http://www.natasha.cc/>Natasha
> <http://www.natasha.cc/>Vita-More
> PhD Candidate,
> <http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/>Planetary
> Collegium
> Proactionary Principle Core Group,
> <http://www.extropy.org/>Extropy 
> <http://www.extropy.org/>Institute
> Member, <http://www.profuturists.com/>Association of
> Professional Futurists
> Founder,
> <http://www.transhumanist.biz/>Transhumanist Arts &
> Culture
> Advisory Committee,
> <http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/>Zero Gravity Arts 
> Consortium
> 
> If you draw a circle in the sand and study only
> what's inside the circle, 
> then that is a closed-system perspective. If you
> study what is inside the 
> circle and everything outside the circle, then that
> is an open system 
> perspective. - Buckminster Fuller
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
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> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>
http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
> 

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