[ExI] Basis of Belief

Gary Miller aiguy at comcast.net
Thu Feb 28 01:29:05 UTC 2008

Henry said: 

>>"Pardon me my PC friend. I thought we were talking about debate, not
You're making a hasty generalization.
In the subject of belief and debate, the victim *is* to be blamed." >>

If you knew me Henry you would know that I am far from politically correct
but I do believe in respecting peoples others people's beliefs and respect
their right not to be ridiculed.

If I told a dirty joke or an Ethnic joke and the wrong person overhead and
was offended I would offer them my sincere apologies.  Not because I am PC
or because I thought I did was a terrible thing but because I inadvertantly
caused them anger, pain, and embarrassment.  Maybe I ruined their day!  If I
did that then they have right to be angry. People come to this list to
learn, to be entertained, to hope for the future, they do not come to be
insulted for their beliefs.

In a debate on the other hand there is an agreement between individuals to
argue opposing viewpoints. Posting comments about the intelligence of
whether a specific religious group are even human is not a debate it falls
under the category of ridicule. And if carried to an extreme such as
publishing a pamphlet that contains extreme ridicule and unsubstantiated
statements of fact could be prosecuted as a hate crime.

On the internet many people are trolls and like to stir up firestorms on
mailing lists such as these just to see how excited they can get people and
then they sit back and watch the fun.  

When you attack a group of people with ridicule with the intent to humiliate
or lower their self esteem, Wikipedia agrees that this is harassment.  Many
types of harassment are against the law in civilized societies.  Especially
if they are repeated or carry implied threats.  And if the target of the
ridicule is a minority or ethnic group the harassment can be prosecuted as a
hate crime.  Many people who opposed the civil rights civil rights movement
made the same kind of statements about minorities not being human as
individuals on this list did towards people who follow a religion. Calling
blacks animals was not a debate it was an attempt to strip them of their
humanity by classifiying them as animals.

As you can see here Henry Wikipedia lists many type of ridicule or verbal
harassment that are crimes or have at least been prosecuted as crimes under
certain circumstances.


>From Wiki pedia 
"Types of harassments
There are a number of harassments that fall into this category.

Harassment that can occur on the playground, school, in the workforce or any
other place. Usually physical and psychological harassing behavior
perpetrated against an individual, by one or more persons. 
Psychological harassment
This is humiliating or abusive behavior that lowers a person's self-esteem
or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, actions
or gestures. Falling into this category is workplace mobbing. Community
Based Harassment - stalking by a group against an individual using repeated
distractions that the individual is sensitized to, such as clicking an ink
pen. See the following website: http://www.c-a-t-c-h.ca/ 
Racial harassment
The targeting of an individual because of their race or ethnicity. The
harassment's include words, deeds, and actions, that are specifically
designed to make the target feel degraded due to their race of origin or
Religious harassment
Verbal, psychological or physical harassment's used against targets because
they choose to practice a specific religion. Religious harassment can also
include forced and involuntary conversions.[1] 
Sexual harassment
Harassment that can happen anywhere but is most common in the workplace, and
schools. It involves unwanted and unwelcome, words, deeds, actions,
gestures, symbols, or behaviors of a sexual nature that make the target feel
uncomfortable. Gender and sexual orientation harassment fall into this
The unauthorized following and surveillance of an individual, to the extent
that the person's privacy is unacceptably intruded upon, and the victim
fears for their safety. 
Violence committed directly or indirectly by a loosely affiliated and
organized group of individuals to punish or even execute a person for some
alleged offense without a lawful trial. The 'offense' can range from a
serious crime like murder or simple expression of ethnic, cultural, or
religious attitudes. The issue of the victim's actual guilt or innocence is
often irrelevant to the mob, since the mob relies on contentions that are
unverifiable, unsubstantiated, or completely fabricated. 
To persecute, harass, or torture in a deliberate, calculated, planned,
manner. Typically the targeted individual is a subordinate, for example, a
fraternity pledge, a first-year military cadet, or somebody who is
considered 'inferior' or an 'outsider'. Hazing is illegal in many instances.

Backlash or 'victim blaming' occurs when the harasser or other people in the
environment blame the victim for the harassment, or the resulting
controversies and conflicts after the harassment is reported or discovered.
Backlash results when people erroneously believe the victim could stop the
harassment if they really tried, or that the victim must have done something
to cause the harassment. The victim may be accused of trying to get
attention, covering for incompetence, or in cases where the harassment is
proven, lying about the extent of the effects. "Old school" attitudes about
certain kinds of harassment remain and there are in many circumstances
social pressure for victims to "keep their mouths shut" about abuse or
suffer the consequences. 
Police Harassment
Unfair treatment conducted by law officials including but not limited to
excessive force,profiling, threats, coercion, and racial, ethnic, religious,
gender/sexual, age, or other forms of discrimination."

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