[ExI] Joyce (was: John C. Wright Interview)

[PJ Manney]

On Jan 28, 2008 2:00 PM, John K Clark <jonkc at att.net> wrote:
> "PJ Manney" <pjmanney at gmail.com>
> Why not? You ask why not?! Well PJ, if it's so easy why don't you write a
> book that sells 400 million copies then you could become the second
> person in the history of Homo Sapiens  to make a billion dollars from a
> novel. People like Joyce are a dime a dozen, but someone like Rowling
> only comes along once or twice a century; And I would maintain that is
> an objective fact that can be backed up with hard numbers and is
> independent of your subjective enjoyment of the book or of mine.

John, I was trying to be nice and educate you, but clearly the effort
was worthless.  You know nothing about this subject and are revealing
yourself as a culturally tone-deaf ass.  I suspected as much based on
how you treated others on this list regarding subjects you supposed
you were an expert in but probably weren't, but this is too much even
for me.  After this, your name is on my gmail delete filter and I will
withdraw from this conversation and this list for a while, if for no
other reason than life is too short to deal with the willfully
ignorant and insulting.

And if this results in moderation, then so be it.  I have had enough
of entertaining baiters and I'll enjoy the relaxation.

Best selling books of all time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books
Note Pilgrim's Progress, The Count of Monte Cristo (on my top 10
favorite novels list), Lord of the Rings, Catcher in the Rye, Don
Quixote, To Kill a Mockingbird, Pride and Prejudice (other top 10
favorite), The Divine Comedy, etc.  All popular books, but also
excellent and sometimes challenging works.  And BTW, Catcher in the
Rye could never have been written without the influence of those
prickly writers you love to hate coming before it.  I promise you
Salinger read Joyce and brought its example of psychological realism
and a difficult protagonist to bear in his own work.

Later in the article, it indicates that Shakespeare has sold over 4
billion copies.  That wasn't all by unwilling college students.  BTW,
I'm looking forward to your interpretation of Falstaff at the next
Extrope get-together.

Why are the best selling books often children's books, like the Potter
series?  Because new children are born every year.  And they buy books
they grow into, every year.  It's the same reason why half of the top
twenty most popular movies of all time are kids' movies.  They're
called perennials or evergreens.  You can re-release them eternally
and there's always a new audience.  Some of them are great.  And some
of them aren't, but they're still popular.

Most importantly, you confuse writing style with story.  Your initial
criticism of Joyce was over style, not the substance of what he was
writing about.  As to Rowling's stories, she has decent plotting, but
her strength is a wonderful world, relatable characters and a very
strong mythology to match.  That is her genius and what attracts her
fans.  But young people or those who haven't read much are far more
tolerant of sloppy style issues than more well-read adults.  I was
criticizing her writing style, which deserves it.

> By the way have you ever heard of Sully Prudhomme? In 1901 they could
> have given the very first Nobel Prize in literature to Mark Twain but
> decided he was too popular and just wrote children's books so they gave
> it to Sully Prudhomme.

So what is your point?  Awards have never guaranteed value or
longevity of recognition.  They are often political affairs and I can
name as many in science that went to the wrong guy who time has
forgotten.

> > Because Gertrude Stein got there first.
>
> I should have known! I was trying to be as ridiculous as I could but clearly
> I am out of my league in this area. The depths of such idiocy remain
> unplumbed.

Oh no.  You've plumbed it, all right.  You win the prize.

PJ