[ExI] Cryonics a theory or belief?

[Bret Kulakovich]

Hello everyone. "As usual" it would seem :) a conversation not about  
uploading and copying and threading and singularities, and w/e has  
turned into a conversation about that. So here is something having to  
do with the thread, instead.


On Mar 23, 2008, at 8:26 AM, citta437 at aol.com wrote:

> _____________
> My reply: So it is still a dream/a belief not a theory or working
> hypothesis for cryonics does not work by scientific method of
> investigation.


Hi Terry, it works currently, but in a scaled fashion. Entire "humans"  
are stored in liquid nitrogen, as embryos. We (species we) have also  
managed to vitrify entire organs that have emerged in a functioning  
state and have been installed in humans as donor organs. There is a  
great deal of information about low temperature experimentation in  
living humans and animals for surgical purposes, and work is being  
done to cryonically store larger and more complex systems using  
improved formulae all the time.

So this is entirely a theoretical pursuit with escalating  
experimentation within the scientific method. It is not a dream/belief.

A list of independent scientific journal articles, hosted on the Alcor  
website:
http://www.alcor.org/sciencerefs.html

Science FAQ:
http://www.alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm

et cetera.


> My reply: Its neither you nor not you for there's no permanent person
> to be identified as change occurs moment to moment in the death of
> cells from a biological process during the interchange of oxygen and
> carbon dioxide. The intercellular system is not a person but a
> biological process among a lot of complex organ system such as brain
> and its supporting structures. What is a person? Its a conventional  
> way
> of identifying an individual by social standard/culture using
> ideas/thoughts/memes.

Are you still you after a heart transplant?  If the intercellular  
system, the whole she-bang, is halted, and then restored in an  
undamaged state, is it still you? Until we prove otherwise, there  
isn't any real scientific evidence to suggest that transplantation of  
anything other than the brain would change "you-ness". Therefore, if  
the above systemic experimentation continues to yield positive  
results, at the rate it has in the past twenty years, and medical  
instrumentation continues to increase in resolution and capacity, I  
would say cryonics will yield its first "real" success in  
approximately 180 years, barring any major leap. Just look at Moore's  
Law, or the amount of time between the Wright Flier and the Moon  
landing for examples of scale.


> My conclusion: Therefore cryonics is a belief not unlike a religious
> belief for immortality. Simulation of collective memories are  
> happening
> since the course of human history.
>
> Terry


Actually, and meaning no offense, it would seem to be exactly and  
precisely not. More like being a fan of Apple Computer at the worst.  
If you want to call that religious belief, then ok. :)

Cheers,

~]3