[ExI] flds raid, was general repudiation...

[Rafal Smigrodzki]

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:33 PM, John Grigg <possiblepaths2050 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>  At this point I don't know what to say that will open the eyes of Lee
>  and Rafal.  I am stunned at their stance on the matter of these young
>  14-15 year-old teenage brides (and baby making machines) married off
>  to many decades older men.  Being brainwashed/socially conditioned
>  (yes..., brainwashed, that is the right word) by the prominent men in
>  their community to be an least mostly willing wife/sex partner is
>  WRONG.
>
>  How can you gentlemen not grok this???
>
### It is certainly wronger to be kidnapped by SWAT and delivered to
other religious nuts who will indoctrinate you with their own brand of
bullshit.

Since you never answered in the affirmative to my questions about
physical abuse, rape, and incarceration, I assume you actually agree
with me that none of these acts of violence plays a significant role
in maintaing polygamous families in the US.

And here is a point where you are clearly incorrect: The
"conditioning" you are objecting to is not all done by "prominent
men". Of course, everybody in the FLDS communes is participating -
older men, women, granny, grandpa, older sisters, everybody. It is
their way of life, their way of thinking. It is not a situation where
a few lecherous old sleazeballs are keeping everybody else subdued by
force. Of course, the cultists know they can leave but mostly they
don't want to (now perhaps even less so than before, knowing that the
SWAT teams are after them). They believe all their baloney, think they
will go to heaven, nothing really unusual. Nobody is "brainwashed"
there. You can look up the original meaning, first used pertaining to
Communist POW camps (e.g. "Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually
political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic
convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set
of fixed beliefs"). Nobody is brainwashing prisoners, they are just
telling stupid stories to their children, just as almost everybody
else. There is nothing "WRONG" about telling each other stupid
stories, as long as nobody gets hurt by them. There is nothing "WRONG"
if a few older men get consensually laid, even if you are not getting
any.

Try to grok that using violence to end a bizarre, but non-violent way
of life is just plainly wrong, no matter how much you disagree with
the underlying doctrines.

Rafal