[ExI] punishment

Lee Corbin lcorbin at rawbw.com
Sat Apr 4 09:04:59 UTC 2009

Dagon Gmail wrote:

> The jury is still out whether or not wife beating is immoral behavior, 

Well, *we* should vociferously agree that it is.
(I.e., that we disapprove so strongly that arrest
warrants will be issued against the perpetrators
and they'll be tried and probably found guilty.

 > and equally uncountable numbers of people that shrug [off]
 > whatever I think.

Well, that's life, when you're not a celebrity.

> It will be unresolvable - people are stuck in their grooves
> and discourse is dead. Not even transhumanists have ideals left,

Don't give up so soon on that one! I sense that plenty of
people here still have ideals, or at least deeply divided
about what principles to embrace. You and I simply need
to help them and each other find the best ones.

> and extropianism has the same polarized bulwark of
 > self-interest, collapse of ideals, belligerence, political
> obstinacy, arrogance and contempt as any segment of society.
> Prove me wrong.

Consider the gang segment of society, whose members
regularly exert violence upon each other, and (this
year? or just preceding years?) have recently set a
new record in the California city of Oakland for

> I can only vouch that I believe the near-collapse of
 > the worlds climate a reality, that humanity
> is largely responsible,

Yes, but you don't *know* this for a fact. Take me,
for instance. I think that there is a 50% chance that
the singularity will go very bad for humanity and that
we'll be snuffed out. But I don't know it.

I worry every day about The Big One (that's California-
speak for the Mother of All EarthQuakes). I used to
worry every day about Osama or his friends firing off
a nuke in some big U.S. city and the economic consequences,
but I'm busy, and now only worry about that every other

Your worries about "possibly billions

> going to die as a direct result before 2100,

you see, merely parallel my own worries---and my new
found daily worry (since October) about the economy.

But I don't *know* any of those things are really
going to happen, or to be so bad if they do. Cheer up!
Things could be worse. In fact, they always have been.

> What I believe doesn't matter an inch. Some here would rather see me die 
> from poverty than listen to whatever I have to say.

Sniff. Well, count me among those who would rather
listen to what you have to say than see you die from

> ...and  what do you know? I don't give a hoot. I am personally sure of 
> all above and I don't care!

That's funny. It really didn't sound like it. Are you
sure you aren't just trying to make the best of a bad
situation and confabulating to yourself? That's like
the venture capitalist talking to all his friend around
a conference table and snorting, "Well, I don't care
what *any* of you think! Me and my money, we're out
of here!", when the truth is that he does care very
much what they think.

(Often I hear my left hemisphere muttering, "Oh, well,
it doesn't really matter", and I know that it's lying.)

> I am going to die anyways, probably somewhere between 2025 and 2045, 
> probably of poverty,

True, *if* the economy collapses, if a gamma ray burst
hits us, if the singularity doesn't go right, if the
climate change people have actually understated the
problem, then we're doomed. But that's then and this
is now.

You should sign up for cryonics, and keep your chin up.
Who knows? It might indeed all work out!

> So I couldn't care LESS about what 
> happens to the environment.
> In fact, I welcome the collapse of the environment,
 > somewhere later this century...

I don't believe you, and neither should you.

> Face it - Humanity is not worth it.

Oh, come now. As compared to what? Is *all* joy from
your life vanished? Are there no songs? Are there no
amusing stories? Isn't it at least interesting to
watch the train wreck of the economy?

Ha! I'll bet you have some secret pleasures you look
forward to and want to keep looking forward to.


> So - everyone:  we ruined it, we fucked up,
> party is over, any year in
> some measure of comfort is a blessing, and a merciful death after is all 
> you can hope for. 
>      > ...On Behalf Of Lee Corbin
>      > ...Climate denial isn't a crime
>      > here yet, but you can be ostracized by your friends... Lee
>     Lee, the ostracizers weren't your friends to start with.  spike
> But I'd love to be proven wrong, on any of this.

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