[ExI] Jonathan Haidt

Emlyn emlynoregan at gmail.com
Mon Apr 20 04:07:24 UTC 2009

2009/4/19 spike <spike66 at att.net>:

> Do numbers 1 and 2 still apply

Call these people "orange shoes"

> to those who have numbers 1 and 2 not just
> turned down, but rather turned off?

Call these people "purple shoes"

> Does tolerance extend to the
> intolerant?  If so, does not the tolerant realize this ultimately is a
> losing strategy?
> spike

Well, tolerance does apply, but only until the purple shoes try to
force their views on the orange shoes. This wont seem fair, and will
seem potentially harmful, so the orange shoes are spurred to action.
Note though that it is different action from an in-group based, "don't
tread on me" kind of reaction; arguments tend to be about justice and
harm, not about "we don't like those people with their stupid purple
shoes, they should have to wear orange shoes".

Also, the orange shoes are certainly want to proselytise, at least, to
the purple shoes, much to the consternation of the latter group!

On the topic of losing strategy, remember this:

"But if the goal is creativity, scientific insight and artistic
achievement, these traditional societies pretty well squelch it."

I think the liberal strategy is something like, let's throw out 3, 4,
and 5 as moral bases; 3 and 4 conflict heavily with 1 and 2, and 5 is
just an outmoded emotional impulse (also conflicting with 1 and 2 I
guess, eg: caste systems can paint the lowest casts as unclean). It's
heavily individualist. To want things to be fair/reciprocal is to give
individuals a level playing field. To be concerned about harm is to
give individuals an environment which is safe enough, and where
individual interests wont be trumped by group interests. So it's the
basis of the modern democratic capitalist society.

Conflict between this kind of morality (groups that espouse it) and
the inverse was mentioned above. In the absense of direct conflict,
the liberal society wins, to the extent that "creativity, scientific
insight and artistic achievement" matter.


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