[ExI] META: A modest proposal for the Extropy-Chat list

Fred C. Moulton moulton at moulton.com
Wed Apr 29 05:13:39 UTC 2009

I have been busy with work and other activities and not able to follow
the list closely for over a week however this caught my attention.
Since I have not followed the list closely for the past week I will
refrain from commenting on the situation of a specific person at least
until I have had a chance to review recent traffic.  However I do have
some thoughts on some of the longer term issues that Max raises.

On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 18:19 -0500, Max More wrote:
> . On the other, this list -- to 
> retain its unique flavor -- should cleave reasonably closely to the 
> Principles of Extropy. One of those, you may recall, says something 
> about Self-Direction which, in my mind, is not remotely compatible 
> with forced relocation of people who hold stupid beliefs (and, 
> frankly, Muslim beliefs ARE stupid and dangerous) but do nothing 
> coercive in pursuit of those beliefs.

This is a key point.

> What to so? I do think that we face an overwhelming amount of digital 
> "stuff" and quite reasonably want to focus our discussions. Requiring 
> some basic level of adherence to the Principles of Extropy on this 
> particular list seems quite reasonable to me. (And I don't believe 
> anyone could demonstrate dictatorial behavior from me. EVER.)

To me one of the values of this list is that it is has a basis in the
Principles of Extropy.  This is useful because hopefully one does not
need to keep repeating the basics.  I am not saying that critical
analysis Extropian Principles is ruled out; what I am saying is that if
someone wants to go off on some thing which clearly violates the
Extropian Principles then that person should be doing it in a different
forum.  Because otherwise there is a lot of confusion.

> Rather than an "either-or solution", perhaps we can develop a 
> workable and productive "and" solution. In barest form, that would 
> mean moderating this list -- probably a little *more* vigorously than 
> we have historically -- while creating a new list. 

Let me ask the obvious question of why should you or Spike expend your
time creating another list?  Why not let those people who would be using
the list create it themselves; that way they can have it exactly as they
want it.  One of the problems of creating something for someone else is
that you are stuck with it.  There are several places on the Internet
where people can set up new lists; why not let the people who want to
discuss things which are outside the Extropian Principles design, name
and moderate their own list on Yahoo or any of the other sites where
lists can be created.  As long as they do not call it Extropy or
Extropian then it is not something that you or Spike have to worry
about.  Both you and Spike have more important things to do than deal
with a second list.

> The new list, 
> perhaps named "Extropy-Controversial" or "Extropy-Unmoderated" would 
> be the place to take all discussions which the moderators deem 
> unsuitable to Extropy-Chat.

If you do create a new list then please please please do not put the
term Extropy or Extropian as part of the list name.  That will just add
to the confusion.  As I said above I think you and Spike have more
important things to do than set up a new list; leave it to the people
who are going to be using it.  If they set up their own list then they
should be happy and not complaining to you or Spike.   If it is their
own list running on Yahoo they can moderate or not as they see fit.
Then they have two places to post; one place for things in harmony with
the Extropian Principles and another place for things not in harmony
with the Extropian Principles.


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