[ExI] pat condell's latest subtle rant

[Lee Corbin]

Max ends up asking

 > Am I a just a weak fool to do this? Is Condell's attitude and approach
 > always useful/appropriate/effective/wise?

Condell's message WAS to the choir; of course.

Yes, it was just for us, and many of those things he
said would be in extremely poor taste to deploy in
a discussion with a believer. Not to mention ineffective.
Not to mention the whole acerbic manner that you
describe well.

However, I believe that what he spoke was more than
mere entertainment and more than (as you put it) giving
some of us a kick in the pants. What he said he did believe
to be the truth, and it gives every one of us (in the
choir) a chance to calibrate our own beliefs against his,
while listening to such a screed.

For example, I got to think about what "righteous" meant
(and to incidentally conclude that Pat hasn't looked up
the meaning lately, or thinks that everyone is going to
knee-jerk take the Christian/Jewish religious meaning).

 > I intend to discuss [the book recommended]
 > with my brother exploratively rather than
 > explaining abruptly to him why his decades-
 > long religious beliefs are moronic.

Of course.

Kindness, civility, and even honesty demand
this approach. I don't have such a high opinion
of people who enter into every discussion with
an interlocutor 100% convinced that their own
position is 100% true, and that the other's is
necessarily nonsense or worse.

Lee



Max More wrote:
> Regarding:
> Aggressive Atheism, by Pat Condell
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjO4duhMRZk
> 
> I tried to watch this twice before, but stopped the video due to being 
> put off by Condell's manner.
> 
> Tonight, I finally watched the whole thing. It made me feel like I was 
> 18 years old again. An aggressive atheist. A guy who went to classes 
> wearing badges (US: buttons) saying things like "legalize heroin", 
> "taxation is theft", and "God is dead". It reminded me of confidently -- 
> nay, arrogantly -- telling the religious buffoons what's what. And you 
> know what? Every thing Condell says is basically right.
> 
> Yet, his attitude and approach, while refreshing, leaving me feeling 
> that his message is purely and pointlessly a preaching-to-the-choir 
> approach. Its value is completely one of entertainment. No, okay, it may 
> also kick some atheists in the ass and inspire them to do something more 
> active to combat the major problems that come with religious thinking.
> 
> While Condell's aggressive approach definitely has a degree of wisdom 
> (and a load of intellectual good sense), is it really appropriate to, or 
> useful for, or humanistic in, dealing with all situations?
> 
> For instance: My half-brother, who I just learned has been diagnosed 
> with serious cancer, has asked me to read a novel that I see is 
> extremely popular among the religious (Christian in particular): The Shack.
> 
> Relevant background: This is a (considerably older) half-brother -- 
> simply "brother" as far as I knew until a few years ago -- who, when I 
> was in my teens and had recently lost his beliefs... or rather, had 
> thrown off the shackles of... religion, insisted (at a Christmas family 
> gathering), that I would certainly go to Hell forever because I didn't 
> believe that Jesus was the son of God.
> 
> A Pat Condell-style atheist might tell simply tell my brother that he is 
> an idiot to believe this crap. I agreed to actually read this book and 
> -- unless it really is *monumentally* stupid -- I intend to discuss it 
> with my brother exploratively rather than explaining abruptly to him why 
> his decades-long religious beliefs are moronic.
> 
> Am I a just a weak fool to do this? Is Condell's attitude and approach 
> always useful/appropriate/effective/wise?
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------
> Max More, Ph.D.
> Strategic Philosopher
> Extropy Institute Founder
> www.maxmore.com
> max at maxmore.com
> -------------------------------------
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