[ExI] The Death Toll Imbalance in the Mideast War (Was: Mary Magdelene?/was Re: Iran's plan for their gay population)

painlord2k at libero.it painlord2k at libero.it
Sat Jun 6 14:50:14 UTC 2009

Il 06/06/2009 14.21, Stathis Papaioannou ha scritto:

> Even one American death is too much if the invasion was evil and
> unnecessary; but as Stefano said, the correct comparison is with the
> number of American civilians killed by Iraqis on American soil.

If this comparison is right, how many American civilians on American
soil were killed by Nazi Germany soldiers and how many Nazi Germany
civilians on Nazi Germany soil were killed by American soldiers?

Your stance is the same of the pacifists in the '30 and '40.

If I see a woman raped and I have the means to stop the aggressor the
right move is to do nothing. Because the rapist did me nothing until
now, so I have no reason to do anything to him. Maybe the raping is
something cultural and I have no right to judge it.

>> Americans (even those in uniform) tend to feel very sad about
>> innocents getting killed due to the fighting...

> Whereas the soldiers of other, evil countries are happy when they
> kill civilians in a country they are invading.

When the soldier of Imperial Japan in Nanchino used newborns to practice
with bayonets skill and go raping around so much that the river become
red of blood, I would not say they are happy, only they appear to
consider it right.

>> But ask yourself, how would Russia or China behave if they alone
>> had the combined economic, technological and military power that
>> the U.S. possesses?  I shudder at the very thought...
>> A similar war fought by Russia or China would have had a Muslim
>> death toll ten times (or a hundred times...) what we have had due
>> to mass executions, concentration/labor camps, the firebombing of
>> entire cities, starvation, rape, body organ stealing, disease, and
>> death march deportations.  The United States has tried, at least up
>> to a point, to fight humanely.
> The Soviet war in Afghanistan was similar in type and scale to the
> American war in Vietnam. Do you have any evidence suggesting that
> the Americans behaved better than the Soviets?

Soviet used chemical weapons in Afghanistan.
They, surely, were much harsher than Americans but the larger damages to
Afghanistan was done by the Warlords there (Hekmatiar for one) that gave
a damn to the lives of the Afghan people after the Soviet gave up and
the land was there for grab.

>> America has it's definite shortcomings, but at least we have values
>> and principles to aspire to (despite sometimes veering off in the
>> wrong direction, until course corrections are made), instead of
>> merely always pursuing power for it's own sake and with no concern
>> for human life and liberty, which is the approach of our rivals.
> Every invader claims to have these virtues. Much of the rest of the
> world (disinterested bystanders, as it were, not just the aggrieved
> parties) feels that America lacks them in its dealings with other
> countries.

Many of the disinterested bystanders sold weapons to Saddam, for
example. Very disinterested they are, but mainly on how he used them.
For example, the France sold nuclear technology to Saddam, if Israel had
not destroyed Osiriak, maybe he would have wisely used it against the
Iranians as he used the chemical technology German gave him to produce
gas and gas the Kurds.

Well, we could had let him continue to kill around.
He never bothered you, so it is not your problem.

I have the idea that if a white Christian male did the same you would be
all aroused and offended and would claim for him to be stopped and throw
in jail.

>> At least in the cases of the Taliban and Al Queda, we are trying to
>> root out very vicious organizations that delight in crimes against
>> humanity and who want to cripple Western civilization.  Yes, it's
>> terrible that so many innocent Muslims have died in this war, but
>> often their own people (the insurgents), hide amongst them and use
>> these unfortunate souls as cover &  impromptu human shields.
> And I suppose that the Iraqi invaders would say it was terrible that
> innocent Americans had to die due to the American insurgents hiding
> among the population, when all the Iraqis wanted to do was make sure
> that America would never be able to threaten other countries again.

I'm sure many "pacifist" (in Italy someone call them pacifalse) are not
a bit interested in the lives of the victims. This because when there
are hundreds of more victims from not-white, not-christians killers,
they are silent and in other matters occupied (holidays, protesting for
the cutting of tree in their cities).

Pacifism is simply a tool to obtain political power, not take any
responsibility for what happen and generally do nothing you don't like.
Then, when something happen they don't like, strangely (but not so) they
find interesting justifications to aggress the people they don't like.

For example, we had in these days a number of fire bombings against the
Lega Nord chapters (the alleged, by the press, xenophobic, racist,
extreme right, blah, blah, blah...) or an arson attempt against Casa
Pound (real, self-described fascists).

For example, I never hear any complain from pacifists when this happen


>> As Ahmad Rashid writes in Taliban, still the best book on the
>> subject
>> What followed was another brutal massacre, genocidal in its
>> ferocity, as the Taliban took revenge on their losses the previous
>> year. A Taliban commander later said that Mullah Omar had given
>> them permission to kill for two hours, but they had killed for two
>> days. The Taliban went on a killing frenzy, driving their pick-ups
>> up and down the narrow streets of Mazar shooting to the left and
>> right and killing everything that moved — shop owners, cart
>> pullers, women and children shoppers and even goats and donkeys.
>> Contrary to all injunctions of Islam, which demands immediate
>> burial, bodies were left to rot on the streets. ‘They were shooting
>> without warning at everybody who happened to be on the street,
>> without discriminating between men, women and children. Soon the
>> streets were covered with dead bodies and blood. No one was allowed
>> to bury the corpses for the first six days. Dogs were eating human
>> flesh and going mad and soon the smell became intolerable,’ said a
>> male Tajik who managed to escape the massacre.

When was the last time the American supreme commander gave the 
permission to kill indiscriminately for two hours and the troops killed 
indiscriminately for two days? And no one went to court martial and was 

Do you want to talk with them without preconditions of any type?
Maybe, if you sit down with them and sing kumbaya they could become your 
friends and all could go to a nudist camp.

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