[ExI] Left Behind

[Aware]

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Lee Corbin <lcorbin at rawbw.com> wrote:
> Jef wrote
>
>>> Giulio wrote:
>>
>>> I am one of those who see the body as a meat cage and, if the option
>>> were already available, I would cheerfully choose to upload to silicon
>>> or cyberspace. But then I would want MORE color, sound, scent and sex,
>>> not less.
>>
>> Giulio, nearly everyone in these futurist forums (and nearly everyone
>> else too) shares this desire for more in the way of the sensual
>> pleasures you list.  But I think it's worth pointing out, that more
>> coherently, there is no distinct or essential "you", separate from the
>> meat, and the very sensual desires you express are *defined* by the
>> nature of the "meat" within the current cultural context.
>
> I'm surprised that this didn't provoke any disagreement.
> At least to me it meant that uploading is such a radical
> transformation that the "you" has completely changed,
> which in some minds would be unacceptable.

Lee, apropos our discussion the last couple of days about ignoring context:

Do you really think, after our discussions over more than ten years,
often touching on this very same subject, that somehow I would now
hold the simple position you ascribe to me here?

You claim to be conversant with Bayes', but it seems that often you
infer directly from what you see as the evidence, with little or no
consideration, it seems, for the likelihood function supported by
(all) the evidence, or updating from your prior.

It should be clear by now I'm not a substrate chauvinist.  But the
point was not simple transference to another substrate, but
significantly *more* in the way of sensual experience and enjoyment.
My point was that to the extent you change the way the world is
experienced (not simply the world that you experience) you change
yourself.

And there's nothing necessarily bad about that, but let's not be naive
about our visions of possible futures, and especially about what it
takes to get there.

- Jef

Hi John (Grigg).  No personal identity debates, pleeeease.