[ExI] Bodies

[Kevin Freels]

>> I don't think that "virtually all humans" will do this. Instead, I expect that this kind of branching of human evolution will be done by a relatively small segment of the population.

>I don't think you are aware of how many people are involved *now.*
Over a year ago there were 11.5 million people subscribed to WoW.
This is amazing considering the really crude interface to the virtual
world.

Oh, I agree. I'm aware of it and I think it is terrific. But I'm also aware of the 3 billion or so people who are part of major religions that will be working against this progress. I'm aware of people who will let their own children die rather  than let them be cured of something simple through western medicine. I'm aware of people who think that prayer saves lives and that they can make decisions based on the alignment of the planets or the order of a deck of cards. People aren't always going to take best or most rational path. We often do things just aren't for the greater good and frequently do things that defy logic entirely. As the singularity nears I expect it to have a polarizing effect on people and as more people are drawn to the technology, more will also be pushed away by it. 

>> In time, that segment will grow, but a suspect that a large majority of the population will simply see this as another religion, or just another unique way of life much as nudists are viewed.  With the "God gene" existing in such a large portion of the population and the huge number of people who would believe that such a thing as giving up your meat-body would be the work of the devil, I am certain that there would be lots of violence along the way. The only way that I see "virtually all humans" abandoning physical reality is if those battle result in the death of the rest of the people who don't.

>I don't think you understand the "boiling a frog" aspect.  (The thesis
is that you can boil a frog without it jumping out of the pot if you
start with cold water and slowly heat it.)

As an outgrowth of nanotech based medicine, people will be able to
upload into virtual worlds and reverse the process at will.  It will
only take a few hundred watts to keep your body in cold storage and
your memory updated.  For a time, years even, people will only spend
part time in the virtual state.

Oh I understand the concept. I just don't think it applies. Otherwise luddites and technophobes would not exist now. But using the boiling of frogs as an example, the rate that the temperature of the "pot" is increasing is accelerating and this is making more frogs aware of the situation they are in....not less. I don't see how you can miss this. If a shot became available today that would make everyone immortal for free, do you not realize that a huge group of people would form up against it and try to blow up the plant producing it? Wouldn't we see in the news that some cult groups arranged mass suicides to "prevent the overpopulation of the earth"? "There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity"

>The problem is, virtual spaces can be and will be made *nicer* than
the real world, not to mention less expensive.  As people start
spending more and more time there, the physical world will be
increasingly abandoned.  People are *social.*  We live at certain
densities and stores (for example) will be abandoned when there are
too few people for them to make sense.  (Automated stores may persist
a long time even with very few customers.)  Near the end the only
things moving on the streets will be police robots.

>Stored bodies with updated memories may be widespread for hundreds of
years, with all the infrastructure in place and being maintained by
machines with limited AI capacity.  It's going to make a strange
world.

>If you see any way to avoid this fate, let us know.

Actually I don't see that as a "problem", and yes, it will be a strange world no matter how it plays out. I do think that the "real" world will be slowly abandoned so we're on the same page there. In the "real" world, I just think this would take many more generations than you seem to think. Yes, we require certain population densities, but that requirement is only 150 people or so. That's how we lived before technology, it is still the ideal social group size for our species, and there are a number of them still around and their numbers are on the rise, and I think that's how many technophobic communities will continue to persist for a really long time after we have these capabilities. The presence of robots will be necessary to protect us from these fringe groups. 

The really interesting part of this is how time will be viewed subjectively from inside the "virtual" world vs the real world. Thousands of years could pass for those within the virtual universe in what is only seconds to the remaining human communities. The possibility exists that the virtual world could wipe itself out in a very short period of time leaving only those who shunned technology who would then use that to reinforce their religious doctrines and humanity would be set back several thousand years in the blink of an eye. That is the fate I wish to avoid......
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