[ExI] Eliezer S. Yudkowsky, Singularitarian Principles. Update?

[Samantha Atkins]

On Nov 12, 2010, at 8:03 AM, Richard Loosemore wrote:

> Singularity Utopia wrote:
>> Thanks Richard Loosemore, regarding the SL4 route to contact Eliezer, that's exactly the info I needed.
>> John Grigg, you say I may not be allowed to stay long on the SL4 list? Why is this, are Singularitarians an intolerant group leaning towards fascism?
> 
> Er.... you may be misunderstanding the situation.  ;-)
> 
> You will be unwelcome and untolerated on SL4, because:
> 
> a)  The singularity is, for Eliezer, a power struggle.  It is a matter of which personality "owns" these ideas .... who determines the agenda, who is seen as the pre-eminent power broker .... who has the largest army of volunteers to spread the message.   And in that situation, you, my friend, are a Threat.  Even if your ideas were more sensible than his you would be attacked and denounced, for the simple reason that you would not be meekly conforming to the standard view of the singularity (as defined by The Wise One).

Funny.  I have disagreed and argued with Eliezer for many years without ever getting kicked out of anything including SL4.  I have never known him to exhibit this simplistic egoism you accuse him of.  I have known him to actually make a point of saying when something I or someone else said that was contrary to his opinion turns out to have something of value in it.   Eliezer in my experience is quite willing to admit when he is wrong.   He even goes out of his way to say that he was quite mistaken at various times or in various past writings.  

> Eliezer obviously thinks that he is the chosen one, but whereas you are coming right out and declaring that you are the one, he would never be so dumb as to actually say "Hey, everyone, bow down to me, because I *am* the singularity!".  He may be an irrational, Randian asshole, but he is not that stupid.
> 

I don't think so.  Eliezer says the problem is important and has dedicated himself to addressing it.  I imagine he would be quite delighted if others did so also and using approaches that may be different from what he is exploring.  Why use only one approach to such a serious problem domain?

> So have fun on SL4, if there is anything left of it.  If you don't actually get banned within a couple of months it will be because SL4 is (as John Clark claims) actually dead, and nobody gives a damn what you say there.
> 

Again, I was on SL4 pretty much from the beginning and certainly was not any sort of cultist or yes-woman.  So how come I wasn't banned if your characterization is valid?  And no, this isn't an invitation to revisit just how much you feel you were wronged by Eliezer in the past.   

- s