[ExI] Fwd: Re: [technocalypse] Re: Water Ice Jupiter Brains

Thu Oct 14 21:14:39 UTC 2010

Emphasis added, once again.

-------- Original Message --------
From: Jake Hamilton <jake.redfive at gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 10:02:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [technocalypse] Re: Water Ice Jupiter Brains
Reply-To: technocalypse at yahoogroups.com

How could blind evolution create a protetin that a postsingularity computer
system couldn't? The formulation and simulation testing of all possible
proteins built from all possible building blocks folded in all possible ways
would be trivial, given the hundreds of trillions of avabits available in
just a fraction of one solar matrix's computational resources.

As far as a monument to our origins goes, why need it be in the "real"
world? A computer system could model every detail, down to a Planck length
in the nanometers, and build a "monument" in another, computational reality.
A biosphere in a normal universe is a vast expanse of dumb matter just *
asking* any of uncountably finite hordes of intelligences of every stripe,
power, and moral/ethical code (or lack thereof) to convert it into smart
matter to meet an ever-voracious need for more computational cycles. Not to
mention, evolving life would eventually spawn a sapient species, and then
you're just back in the exponential cascade model of singularity formation,
and 10,000 or so years after origin of primary sapient species you add yet
another little inflationary explosion of postorganic intelligence to the
roster. Not to mention that a "monument" in digital reality can be backed
up, saved, copied, and iterated in different paths and timelines
simultaneously to come up with more comprehensive/interesting/manipulatable
and deletion/corruption-safe versions.

You assume that normal, more-or-less orthohuman (or orthobiological,
whatever) people will continue to exist indefinitely beyond the singularity.
While possible, I don't think it's very likely. Eventually, the only
possibility for the most reactionary of reactionaries who only exist in
Reality 1.0 to keep existing that way is in the equivalent of a zoo - which
is basically what you're proposing. But even that wouldn't last long - if
posthuman intelligences want to keep relatively normal, pre-transcendence
intelligences around to be study subjects and playtoys, eventually they're
going to bore of the idea of keeping them in some enormously wasteful

###################################
material playground - why not just upload them into an identical environment
without "telling" them, and keep doing the same research, entertainment, and
playtime from there, freeing up resources to build more pocket universes in
the process?
####################################

Either your idea is a zoo run by the uploaded posthumans, whose demise I've
described, or a nature preserve, which eventually just becomes part of the
singularity-catalyzed biological-to-machine progression, or a pastoral
nostalgia-trip built by orthohuman escapees that hits the final acceleration
cascade of singularity formation even faster, probably just a few
years. Then it just follows the same pattern/cycle/progression again, over
and over and over, existential cowards running from their mind-children,
leaving the intelligence booms they fear as their footprints.

On 1/9/06, Daniel <proleus at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- In technocalypse at yahoogroups.com, Jake Hamilton
> <jake.redfive at g...> wrote:
> >
> > That doesn't make sense. What's wrong with a computer system? Is it
> any less
> > of a 'reality'? How do you know that our universe isn't itself just
> some
> > simulation embedded in another, encompassing universe, or a
> historical
> > simulation being run by our deep-time posthuman mind-children? A
> computer
> > system, especially one like the kind our downstream selves could
> create, is
> > no more or less a reality than the universe we currently iterate
> in. I'm not
> > saying that we should completely give up on or destroy Reality 1.0
> entirely,
> > but that doesn't mean we should illogically treat it as a somehow
> special,
> > sacrosanct objective reality, when in truth that doesn't jibe with
> basic
> > implications of information theory, nor that it makes sense to
> leave most of
> > the universe dumb when each teragram of "ensmartened" matter is
> another
> > new small universe of places, people, minds, information,
> and "playgrounds".
> > Why leave it at *one* universe, when our 10^16 atoms have the
> potential to
> > be a billion?
>
> We do not know if our universe is actually a computer simulation, but
> we would be doing ourselves an injustice to believe that we are.
> Given the uncertainty of it and the fact that there is absolutely no
> proof that we are infact in a simulation, it is reasonable to assume
> that we are in a original universe, and not in a simulation. By
> leaving biospheres alone and reconfiguring the rest of the matter,
> intelligent life would be leaving a monument of it's origins, and a
> possible means of future advances, since evolution will continue and
> will develop new protein structures that are impossible for even
> 10^90 cps computers to conceive (which is the computing power
> estimated of the entire universe should we be able to reconfigure it
> as computronium).
>
> Also, you must consider that most people will not turn themselves
> into computer programs but many of them will accept computer
> technologies that expand their intelligences. These people must be
> allowed to live and have places to live as they have just as much
> right to exist as the simulated intelligences. So we cannot allow
> computer intelligences to convert the Earth and the life on it, or
> any place humanity colonizes such as space habitats or exosolar
> planets (should we find a way to do so). It would also be a pity if
> superintelligences and future unaugmented humans did not work
> together, it would not hurt the superintelligences but rather would
> give them interesting things to do, and would provide great benefit
> to unaugmented humans.
>
>
>
>
>
> DeATh tO tHe LudDiTe iNsEcT thAt PReyS UpOn thE iGnORanCe oF thE peOPle!
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

DeATh tO tHe LudDiTe iNsEcT thAt PReyS UpOn thE iGnORanCe oF thE peOPle!

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
3X M at CH!N@ 1!B3R7 at 5
http://www.transtopia.org/
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

M at YB3 W3\'R3 ON @NO7H3R P1 at N37...
M at YB3 W3\'R3 @11 !N5 at N3...
--73H 7W!1!6H7 2ON3, 3P!5OD3 79 (D3C. 22, 1961)

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